Posted by: Tulcan

Posted on: 20:26:12 11/10/98

Message:

Have you been able to shoot down those three tough buffs playing offline..... ? being vulnerable... and with limited ammo just like if you were playing online??? HOW?

FW190

Posted by: DocDoom

Message:

: Have you been able to shoot down those three tough buffs playing offline..... ? being vulnerable... and with limited ammo just like if you were playing online??? HOW?

: FW190

You have to set yourself up with a diving headon pass. Be very fast and come in from an angle off the straight ahead (curving into them) and begin your firing at d18, about a full bomber length deflection.

Feed the tracers down the throat of 1, or at best, 2 of them. You can when you get good "feed" the tracer line over to a second buff as you close to the point of breaking the pass.

Don't expect to down any of them first pass unless you get lucky with a pilot kill or get all your shots into a wing root.

If you barrel roll away at extreme speed as you pass under their bellies, you can extend in a gentle arc and suffer maybe as few as 3 to 6 hits, all non-critical (lucks a fortune :)

Climb back up and reverse out of range, pick up a heading parrallel to the bombers and overtake them at d20 away, to be out of defensive fire range.

When you get to d40+ in front of the box, reverse (from a higher alt) and recommence your previous diving headon attack.

Repeat until they are all dead. This is much closer to the reality of actual WWII bomber formation attack than anything you'll have seen in the online arenas, BTW.

The only issue that is totally bogus here is that the bombers fly on sans engines/various parts as if they have no damage at all, as the offline drones are robots that are not affected by damage except that they blow up when a wing/fuselage/tailplane are removed. In real life, you would witnes the damaged buff losing formation with the undamaged ones, which, once culled from the formation would be cut down as it lost the defensive fire cover of its buddies.

In WB offline, this doesn't happen.

The upside of this is that if you eventually get good enough and disciplined enough to down them offline, you can rest assured that you now have what it takes to employ these skills ONLINE and know that you will probably never ever be shot down by a buff again, unless you get stupid and/or impatient ;)

Doc.

The Buff Slayer.

Posted by: front

Message:

:You have to set yourself up with a diving headon pass. Be very fast and come in from an angle off the straight ahead (curving into them) and begin your firing at d18, about a full bomber length deflection.

d18 Doc? That seems really far away to me and the first time I have ever seen anyone advise shooting from that distance. I thought that the WarBirds "bullets" expired beyond about d12 (only the 37mm/75mm go on "forever".

Are you just advising him to shoot from d18 in offline practise to get used to seeing the tracers and where to start leading the B-17 formation etc?

cheers

front

Posted by: Dewey-

Message:

When I do HO the faster I'm going the farther away I shoot. I've even been able to get good hits from D20 in HO. On the other hand if the AC is going away from me I won't shoot till D7-D6. Unless of course a Wingy is in trouble then I'll try to spray ahead of enima to draw him off.

Dewey-

Posted by: DocDoom

Message:

: d18 Doc? That seems really far away to me and the first time I have ever seen anyone advise shooting from that distance. I thought that the WarBirds "bullets" expired beyond about d12 (only the 37mm/75mm go on "forever".

This is assuming extreme closure rates. Say you are set up perfectly and screaming in at max speed, just before the buffet. If you start firing at d18, a full bomber length in deflection, your shells will actually arrive (provided you get the deflection right) at range d10.

They may be slightly early, but at these speeds of closure you have about 2 seconds MAX to get a good burst out in a line for the bomber to swallow before you roll for the overshoot. It really helps your aim and set-up to begin firing at d18, and believe me, if you are as fast as you should be in these types of HO attacks, you will not be wasting more than a shell or 2. If you wait until later, by the time you see where the tracers are going (relative to the bombers path) and adjust your aim, you will be passing under/over colliding into the bombers.

Trust me, in Point Blank, where HO bomber formation attacks were practised beforehand by the LW team (first time ever for a scenario) it was found that:

1: The bombers will do a little "warp" at d24 and jump about d2 closer

2: Set-ups had to begin slightly higher than the bombers and d40+ away

3: D18 was MINIMUM commencement of firing range. Guys who weren't as "hot" at these attacks, and found it to be all over too soon to get any effective fire onto the buffs, actually, for the purpose of lining up the tracer stream in front of the buffs as they closed, used d20 as their "commence firing" range. Of course, this wasted shells, but it proved to be effective in helping those who struggled to get hits on the bombers in this most difficult of attack styles.

Hope this helps.

Doc.

Posted by: front

Message:

"d18 Doc?" I asked earlier on this week. Someone asked for advice about keeling the 3 B-17s in the offline mission and DocDoom gave some us some advice. He talked about opening up at d18 which seemed really far away to me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt but Mrs. front did'nt raise me to be a fool so I wanted to test it meself. I tend to leave the buffs alone online. My P-40E engine hates it when the oil goes...

I met up with a squadie for some H2H thsi evening. We took up the B-17F and the A6M5a and tested out some Head Ons firing from d18 in with the buff flying level.

My squadie got some pings and hits in the first few passes. I saw the rounds (outside view) reaching to me at first (at about d12) and then the tracers would disappear. Only after that distance would I start to hear pings. Next it was my turn. He went to 8k and I headed on in from 10k diving down and at him. We "vis'd" at d99 in H2H and went right at each other. I opened up at d18 and let the first stream flow towards him. On and on it went and then bright flashes... I've never seen so many flashes on a buff in a head on before. I was near memerised. The Zeke chewed right through him and he exploded before I passed by:

front-:let me try a d18 head on

aanvil:k

front-:never did one of them before

front-:up

Eng1 starts

aanvil:up

Auto trim on level

front-:it's not easy at all :-(

front-:prolly works better against a "box"

front-:v

-HOST-:aanvil Was killed in flight

-HOST-:-HOST-:aanvil Was killed in flight

aanvil:shit

front-:well sheet so it works!

front-:you try now!

front-:this is what i saw

-HOST-:aanvil Crashed

-HOST-:-HOST-:aanvil Crashed

aanvil:?

front-:put yer center pipper right on the plane first and then fire in

front-:front and under

front-:then watch for pings from d12 on in

front-:if none appear then aim lower

front-:and push down to keep the bullets on the bastage

front-:it's real intimidating to see the b17 up close in the Zeke like that

I never "got" a buff from a Head On like that before. We tried it again and I got his wing the next pass but collided. In the next pass I got his tail as I flew past.

So it does work Doc. Not that I doubted yer advice. :-)

Ya just need a seriously good line-up from d30 out... with yer buff-killa trimmed nice and easy. After that you just put the pipper on the dot and let it all hang out. It would not be such an easy thing to do in the MA or HA I think. If the buff driver tried any sort of jink as you arrived it would definitely spoil your aim at those closure rates.

cheers

front

Posted by: daddog, 332nd Flying Mongrels

Message:

Yes, once. All the settings were regular, ammo, flight mode and damage.

I think it was my 47th try, thought it might have been 48. ;-)

I used an Me-262 and took my time. Attacking at 2 and 10 oclock. Kept up my speed and often at a pass would not even take a hit.

Tough though, very tough to do. I had to do it at least once.

Posted by: Col. -kumo-, Screamin' Death Squadron

Message:

I used a P-47C and regular ammo settings and vulnerability. I attacked on the first pass head on and damaged one wing on the lead plane. Then I climbed back to their high 2 O'clock or high 10 o'clock and took passes. each time targeting the same wing on the same aircraft until it fell off. I think the trick is to make sure you get the lead buff by the second pass so the defensive fire isn't so thick. I limped home with an oil leak. It took patience and I haven't done it since because it was kind of boring and tedious. Good hunting.

kumo

Posted by: F/O Gazoo, 401 Squadron RCAF Rams

Message:

I used a FW190 A8 loaded with rockets. My first pass on the buffs is a diving pass almost vertical. Make sure you have at least 3k on the buffs. When they get to d20 kill the engine, go veritical down and watch the buffs out of the canopy. When you get within d5 or 6 i start firing rockets. My ultimate goal is to get the center buff. I can usually get at least one, but it is nicer to get the center one. After you fire your rocks, throttle up, and barrel role in the vertical and start a pull out, continuing to roll. I have made this attack without any pings, but usually take only 1 or 2.

Now you have only 2 buffs left. If you have rockets left. repeat the above attack. If not, switch to guns and always start your attack from the 10 or 2 oclock open up with the cannons at d8 or so. Just a quick squirt and set up for another slash. At no time should you attack from the rear.

This usually works for me. Havent been able to do it in a spit though.

F/O Gazoo, 401 Squadron, RCAF Rams

YO-G

Posted by: jedi

Message:

: I used a FW190 A8 loaded with rockets. My first pass on the buffs

Hehe if you're usin rockets on your 190A8, you obviously haven't killed the buffs in ver 2.5, because they ain't no rockets on a A8 anymore!!

And I think you'll find it a very different tactical problem with the particle-beam weapons the new otto employs now. Killing even one of the buffs in that mission is something to be proud of, I reckon.

;-) jedi

Posted by: F/O Gazoo, 401 Squadron RCAF Rams

Message:

Ur right there aint no more rockets, havent tried this for a while, once I could regularily get em, it was no fun anymore. Might have been a Dora, but I thought it was the A8 that carried rockets. (Im a spitfire dweeb ya know, all them FW's look the same to me, hehe)

F/O Gazoo, 401 Squadron, RCAF Rams

Posted by: Tomb

Message:

yup killed em with rockets from p38L ripple fire 4 at a time with 100ms spacing....trying to do it with the p39 37mm at the moment can only get 1 kill and 1 damage so far...before 37mm ammo runs out

not tried rocks in wb2.5...but when i do it will be from a mossie

i fire from a steady 6 oclock at d11-d12 and lob them in

Tomb

Posted by: Stiglr Stab JG5

Message:

I have yet to successfully target a buff with a rocket, because they're unguided. To get high hit %, I've heard you have to get (very) nose high and within d3; yeah right, with the current otto! You'd never make it within d5!!!!!

So, if you're sending rocks in from d12, how do you aim them? Do you have a special sight? What are the pitch parameters, since in my experience the rocks go ballistic pretty quick if launched level?

Posted by: Kergan (VMF-214)

Message:

If you park at d12 orso with 8 rox, you can just keep "firing and correcting" till you hit one of them great lumbering beasts.

The new rocket flight path makes it alot easier, and its easier to see where the smoke goes rather than the tracer round of say....a 37mm round.

fire 1

wait

wait

hmm, a little high (nose down a touch)

fire 2

wait

and so on......

I've only managed to rox kill a buff online once, but it was worth it!

In other rox-related stories, just last week a Red pickled his rox off at me in a HO merge. Hooo BOY was I suprised.