Skudio posted 04-29-99 02:49 PM            

I know every one suppose to know about energy managment and all that other stuff. But lets face it in the main area 60 to 70 percent of the people are on the deck turning and burning.

A lot of times if you want to get a kill or do anything to help your fellow countrymen out you have to get down and dirty and fight it out on the deck. With the starting of the new guns I've found it nearly impossible to do what I used to do to get people down on the deck. Come in high, dive on them , take a quick snap shot, head back out for alt. repeat till there dead or I'm out of ammo. Well that doesn't seem as effictive any more because we don't have the so called "lazer guns".

The effectiveness of the snap shot is now zilch, not to mention risky because the range effectiveness of the guns starts to shine at 2D. With you moving twice as fast as somebody and all that talk about warps and colusure. Can you say warp roll. Its like forget dude.. Well I really do like the new guns, really.

I guess the Queston here is, are rather Questons are:

1. Is there such thing as a snapshot anymore?

2. If I'm stuck down on the deck fighting what are the general rules of thumb.

3. What AC preform well or rather the best at stall fighting, like that which happens all the time on the deck, is it the Zero?

4.With all we have to handle with the collisions and the warps and the hard guns,how the hell are we suppose to boom and zoom anymore, with people down on the deck ?

Any pointers? (I'm not talking about Boom and Zoom fighting with alt. here, talking about takin slower birds out that are low and slow. and you are high with the energy advantage , ie. takin them a little at time with each gun pass, or better yet all at once with a gun pass)((I'm bad speller, give a man a break boss is watchin got to type fast))

Val_DoD posted 04-29-99 05:29 PM            

There isn't a quick and easy answer to your question.

First off E management applies to all styles of fighting, not just B&Z.

B&Z isn't dead it's just different now. You no longer need to come in at 400mph , and start shooting at D5. With 2.6 guns this just doesn't work anymore. Think about why we had to do this prior to 2.6

Prior to 2.6 if you didn't have at a least 100-150mph edge on your pass you would never clear the badits range on your extension. Even with a 200-250mph edge a lucky ping at D5-8 could ruin a B&Zers day.

It's a whole new ball game now.

When you see the guys playing low in the dirt, you can make your pass much shallower and slower, which gives you more time to correct your firing solution. As long as you have enough of an energy advantage to get D2-4 of extension then you are relatively safe from a con reversing on you as you pass.

Also D15(not D25-30) is usually enough of an extension to make a slice-back or quick reversal for a second pass. The enemy has less time to regain E from your first pass, and you can keep the pressure on.

Try to refine your fighting style to include more Chandelles, Immelmanns(sp), and Hi/Low Yo-Yo's. The shortest turn is usually a vertical turn, and you retain your E as you press the next attack.

The trick for the B&Z pilot now is to work the con until you get a pass that offers a sustained burst. I personaly look for the guy low on the deck going vertical to manage his E in the low furball. They are a sitting duck for a fast shallow guns pass.

Also when you come down on a con try to swoop to thier low 6 and close from below them. They are blind to you, and you are already on your way back up when you make your guns pass.

I work in the Training Arena on Monday nights. If you want to work on this stuff I would love to go over it with you. We can also arrange for differnet times if Monday is bad for you. Drop me a line if you are interested.

=val==

PS Never fire when you are pulling Gs if you can help it. In 2.6 the bullet drop is really pronounced when you are pulling to get lead on a breaking con. This really threw me the first week of the new version.

Scott (=val==/DoD) Valline

funked posted 04-29-99 06:31 PM            

VERY well said val!

Also remember a fair percentage of T&B phreaks fight that way because they have trouble shooting unless they are saddled up. So a lot of these guys are totally fixated trying to get kills in 2.6.

Also, I find that d0.5 P-39D 37mm snapshots are a pretty sure 1-ping kill, and it's hard to miss from that range. Just be sure you have not much more than 90 deg. AOT and fly so you will pass behind the con.

Kobra posted 04-29-99 09:50 PM            

What I've found to be quite effective is similar to what Val's referring to, generally setting up a shot on the lower guys (working top down) and looking for a decent tracking shot. By that I mean, setting up for a 1g shot, then following him briefly before heading out for an extension. In planes like the 51 and P40, that's been quite enough time to disable the bogey and watch him plummet downward.

I haven't had time to fly much in the MA, but in the end of the last RPS (since 2.6) I had 14 kills, 2 deaths and this one is 4 kills, 1 ditch (engine smoked by otto), no deaths so far. If anything the BnZ types seem more effective. You can screw up some and still get out with relative ease. Of course if you're doing 120ias on the deck turning with a zeke, well...

=kjbl=

Skudio posted 04-30-99 01:43 PM            

I'm gonna say it again, You guys kick ass. Thanks for the info. Great advice, from all of you. I just really need to calm down about the whole new guns thing. I'm flying way to tence.I need to chill out and think my passes though. Thanks again. And funked, the 37mm on the p-39 at .5D..... Amen to that brother, Amen.

Jekyll posted 05-01-99 04:13 PM            

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received on BnZ'ing a furball was this:

Pick a fighter chasing another guy in a furball as your target. Now when you fly your approach, pretend that you're actually making a firing run on the guy your real target is chasing. Why? Because you know that your target will be following this other guy's every move, and by doing so he will most likely move through the same piece of airspace a second or two later.

So this helps you to anticipate your real target's likely position, and also gives you a vital 1 or 2 seconds warning of maneuvering changes.

Windle posted 05-05-99 02:44 PM            

Good perspective Jekyll!

Skudio - the main thing I do when BnZ fighting is learn to read the guy you choose to hit. Every pilot TnB'ing below you has got one thing on his mind - playing on their best opprotunity to kill their opponents. There is a fine art to anticipating an opponents move. Once you get good at leading a bogie by anticipating his moves rather than just pointing your plane in front of his, you'll be reaping greater benifits in short order. Gain a feel for when they go to offensive thought and repond to that 'click'.

When I BnZ I manuver directly over head and slowly bleed altitude little by little while retaining 'E' until I reach a sweet spot. This is where I know I have just enough E to escape the attack on the zoom but I'm still slow enough to match my opponents initial evasive move. If the timing is just right he wont have a chance to change his mind once he makes the first move - by that time your on him.

I guess my main point would be to practice you intuitiveness when looking for a target. Watch the action below and wait for something to happen to a pilot that that will have distracted him - then make a quick and decisive move, all the time anticipating HIS options and which ones he's most likely to take. If your lucky and read him well then your actions will lead you right down the pipe into the kill zone before you know it!

Good luck and may the force be with you

-Windle-

VF-17 'Jolly Rogers'