Posted by: Ronin (99th Dragons Recruit)

Message:

Allright all you USN/USMC-type folks out there. For the last few days, I decided to try the Corsair and the Hellcat after a long time of flying spits (I needed a change :). So far, I haven't been setting any records, but have been impressed by how well I'm doing in these planes (maybe I'm starting to get the hang of this WarBirds thingy :) A 2-kill sortie in each isn't bad for a "blue" newbie).

What I was wondering is, what are the nuances between these planes. I've been flying them both very similarly and was wondering what can I do in one that I can't do in the other? What works good for both?

How do they compare to each other.

Thanks in advance,

-ronin

"In the intereset of survival, the Ronin's knowledge of [warfare] had to be as extensive as possible."

-from *Secrets of the Samurai: The Martial Arts of Fuedal Japan* by Oscar Ratti and Adele Westbrook

Posted by: Bino (II./JG54)

Message:

Based on the comments I've seen here in AGW and info I've found on several web sites:

- Corsair rolls much more quickly

- Hellcat turns better (both instantaneous and sustained)

- Corsair top speed is 10-15 MPH faster

- Hellcat generally climbs better (both zoom and sustained)

- Corsair zoom climbs slightly better at highest speeds

- Hellcat stall and spin behavior more forgiving

Personally, between these two I prefer the Corsair, for its better roll rate and cockpit view.

bino--

Posted by: Zook VF-17

Message:

I am horrible in the F6F-5, but I am a full time Hog flyer, and I won't use all kinds of complex terminology but the Hog has a few strong points that you can use to your advantage:

1) Speed- not the fastest, but faster than the Hellcat by a lot- don't fight when you're not ready or at a disadvantage. Don't try to run from 51s, Ki-84s, or 190Ds. Tip: You will outpace the Ki above 10,000, andhold your own with 190As.

2) The Hog is a great E-fighter- responsive at high speeds and with a pretty good break and gunnery capability. Don't follow people in 180s- use 90 degrees of break and extend- if he isn't dead, then come back for him later.

3) The Hog is very good "in transition"- I don't know how to explain this but the area between e-fighting and turn fighting is narrow but exploitable. Fighting well in the short window when you're turning with a FW or a 51, or e-fighting with a Spit or Hellcat is a good way to rack up kills. Just remember- the window of your advantages is always fleeting- staying in a turn-fight or an e-fight too long will give the advantage to the planes that can do one or the other better than you.

4) Learn to know when the enemy is in the six dead zone and a threat- you can't see him and turning to do so burns e. "When in doubt, leg it out..." most of my deaths come from underestimating the closure rate of an opponent and waiting too long to do something about it.

5) Dive- cruise at 12-15k minimum. Get above them and stay there. Nothing a spit driver or Ki driver likes better than a Hog below him or her. But, if caught, go down, and manuever in the vertical dive- most planes lock up before you do- also, the extension doesn't end when he breaks off. You have to plan extensions before hand and carry them all the way through. Re-engaging in the F4U before you're ready will get you dead for no reason.

6) Guns Guns Guns- even without the F4U-4b, the Hog is plenty-well armed. 20+ seconds of fire- but that doesn't mean spray and pray. You have to hit at convergence to kill somebody. Good gunnery is an absolute must for F4U flying, and it pays off. I get most of my kills at d4-d6 (low res) and have a gunnery rating that hovers around 18%. Learn to shoot and the plane will pay you back in spades.

7) Roll rate. Although substantially reduced, the Corsair's roll rate is still pretty good. Use it during extensions to complicate gunnery solutions and as a conversion trick- I've stayed with Spits and Kis before using out of plane lag rolls that they didn't expect. Against poorly rolling planes, the old rolling scissors can be effective...warning- no longer as effective against spits!!!

8) Durability- I once landed a Corsair with no rudder, no elevators, and missing one aileron after absorbing probably 20-30 "pings". The plane can take damage but it is not a tank. Don't panic during an extension if you get pinged and start throwing the stick around. In fact, don't panic at all- panicked flying in the Hog is not a good idea.

9) Field defense is tough one in the Hog- better to take off away from the action and interdict the string of heavies otw to the target rather than furball off the runway. If you are low and slow, roll and keep the nose as low as possible. If you stall, do not cut the engine..reduce throttle and then ease it back up- stalls below 3,000 ft are pretty much a lost cause, but I have recovered a few.

10) Trim to dive- use the auto-trim angle feature to trim for higher speeds as you dive, and use F12 to center the stick on pull out.

I fly with a single SW3D pro, no super throttle set-up, and only about 6-8 hours a week. But I do better than average in the Hog and proud of it. Few guys can say that. If you want to learn or fly with a Hog squad, VF-17 is now getting together for greens at 9pm EDT...and we don't just use the Hog as a suicide attack lemming platform, unlike some. It deserves better than that.

Oh, and I'm not going to pat myself on the back too hard, but my single-sortie best is a few more than ten kills (BG).

8X Zook 8X

Posted by: =eadg= [XO 487th FS]

Message:

The Hellcat is currently my favorite ride in the game (it was the Corsair two ToD's ago), so I'll try and give you the Hellcat perspective on each of these....

: 1) Speed- not the fastest, but faster than the Hellcat by a lot- don't fight when you're not ready or at a disadvantage. Don't try to run from 51s, Ki-84s, or 190Ds. Tip: You will outpace the Ki above 10,000, and hold your own with 190As.

The Hellcat is a LOT faster than many think. I find that I get lots of kills on unsuspecting spit, ki84 and 190 drivers in a 'kitty. It requires pretty strict e fighting, but in a dive can catch almost enything and retains the dive speed well in level flight. The F6F dives and in level flight is slower (about 10mph average across altitudes), but climbs a bit better.

: 2) The Hog is a great E-fighter- responsive at high speeds and with a pretty good break and gunnery capability. Don't follow people in 180s- use 90 degrees of break and extend- if he isn't dead, then come back for him later.

This is why I fly the 'kitty now. It actually does all of what you describe even better than the hog IMHO. Itr also holds e better through 180 degrees of trun, so bnz passes can be a little more persistent, and the slightly better zoom puts you in about the same post-zoom position as the hog after the attack, but more time and maneuverability DURING the attack.

: 3) The Hog is very good "in transition"- I don't know how to explain this but the area between e-fighting and turn fighting is narrow but exploitable. Fighting well in the short window when you're turning with a FW or a 51, or e-fighting with a Spit or Hellcat is a good way to rack up kills. Just remember- the window of your advantages is always fleeting- staying in a turn-fight or an e-fight too long will give the advantage to the planes that can do one or the other better than you.

Same with the F6F, except that again I think the kitty can get away with afew seconds of extra turning than the Hog, and her ability to survive in a sustained turnfight is much higher. In fact, the F6F is one of the most under-rated dogfighters in the game (it outturns a spit 9 handily, and can turn right with a spit V in good hands). But to REALLY excel in the F6F, stay bnz unless a higher spit wants to dive on you and mix it up (then punish him).

: 4) Learn to know when the enemy is in the six dead zone and a threat- you can't see him and turning to do so burns e. "When in doubt, leg it out..." most of my deaths come from underestimating the closure rate of an opponent and waiting too long to do something about it.

Yup - the 6 view on both birds is terrible. You HAVE to fly with good SA in either,

: 5) Dive- cruise at 12-15k minimum. Get above them and stay there. Nothing a spit driver or Ki driver likes better than a Hog below him or her. But, if caught, go down, and manuever in the vertical dive- most planes lock up before you do- also, the extension doesn't end when he breaks off. You have to plan extensions before hand and carry them all the way through. Re-engaging in the F4U before you're ready will get you dead for no reason.

The hog is an Olympic medalist in the diving competition. The F6F is respecatble, and can outdive most planes between 5000 and 10000 feet (her real strength).

: 6) Guns Guns Guns- even without the F4U-4b, the Hog is plenty-well armed. 20+ seconds of fire- but that doesn't mean spray and pray. You have to hit at convergence to kill somebody. Good gunnery is an absolute must for F4U flying, and it pays off. I get most of my kills at d4-d6 (low res) and have a gunnery rating that hovers around 18%. Learn to shoot and the plane will pay you back in spades.

Yup. Both are deadly, though the F6F carries SLIGHTLY more ammo. Both have enuff for a dozen kills a sortie regularly.

: 7) Roll rate. Although substantially reduced, the Corsair's roll rate is still pretty good. Use it during extensions to complicate gunnery solutions and as a conversion trick- I've stayed with Spits and Kis before using out of plane lag rolls that they didn't expect. Against poorly rolling planes, the old rolling scissors can be effective...warning- no longer as effective against spits!!!

The F6F is a terrible roller at slow speeds. Lose an aileron and youll think you're in a car. However, as is tru across the board, get a hellcat fast and y9oull think its a zeke (roll, turn, etc.).

: 8) Durability- I once landed a Corsair with no rudder, no elevators, and missing one aileron after absorbing probably 20-30 "pings". The plane can take damage but it is not a tank. Don't panic during an extension if you get pinged and start throwing the stick around. In fact, don't panic at all- panicked flying in the Hog is not a good idea.

Both are sponges, plain and simple.

: 9) Field defense is tough one in the Hog- better to take off away from the action and interdict the string of heavies otw to the target rather than furball off the runway. If you are low and slow, roll and keep the nose as low as possible. If you stall, do not cut the engine..reduce throttle and then ease it back up- stalls below 3,000 ft are pretty much a lost cause, but I have recovered a few.

The Hellcat is MUCH better suited for field defense-type activity (though some would question the general concept of field defense at all,,, heheheh).

The hellcat has one other disadvantage - the yaw control (rudder response) is especially sluggish. It takes a lot of practice to get the feel for the yaw response, which is critical for bnz gunnery as well as rudder-assisted maneuvers in a dogfight.

Both planes are excellent killers, plain and simple. Both can survive late in the RPS, though the Hellcat becomes outdadted first just cuz of her lower speeds.

ell, lots of text to pur through here - I hope this has helped in some way. Stop by the Training Arena on a MOnday and you can ride along as me and Scop put the F6F through her paces....

Good luck and good hunting,

=eadg=

Warbirds Training Staff

Posted by: Snake (-snke-) ~RK^ Carrier Air Group

Message:

A very good treatise, and also by =eadg= on the F6F. This is one little error here:

: 1) Speed- not the fastest, but faster than the Hellcat by a lot- don't fight when you're not ready or at a disadvantage. Don't try to run from 51s, Ki-84s, or 190Ds. Tip: You will outpace the Ki above 10,000, and hold your own with 190As.

Against the Frank (Ki-84) you don't have to be above 10,000 ft. The F4u is faster than the Frank at low level too. One thing to beware of is the Frank's level acceleration. This leads to misconception that the Frank is faster. If you start co-e, and can attain 350+ ias on the deck, you'll out pace the Frank. It may take awhile since their top speeds are close, but the Frank is most definitely slower!

Posted by: Udie -900th- Bloody Jaguars

Message:

Snip of some really good points

: 6) Guns Guns Guns- even without the F4U-4b, the Hog is plenty-well armed. 20+ seconds of fire- but that doesn't mean spray and pray. You have to hit at convergence to kill somebody. Good gunnery is an absolute must for F4U flying, and it pays off. I get most of my kills at d4-d6 (low res) and have a gunnery rating that hovers around 18%. Learn to shoot and the plane will pay you back in spades.

Ditto on the shooting range d4-d6 seems to be best for me at about 350 convergance. The f4u seems to be a much more stable guns platform than the hellcat too. It's much easier for me to find the sweet spot.

: 7) Roll rate. Although substantially reduced, the Corsair's roll rate is still pretty good. Use it during extensions to complicate gunnery solutions and as a conversion trick- I've stayed with Spits and Kis before using out of plane lag rolls that they didn't expect. Against poorly rolling planes, the old rolling scissors can be effective...warning- no longer as effective against spits!!!

I use this more than anything. I will start a very wide barrel roll at about d15 to d10 keeping the enemy about 20-30 degrees from my head. At the merge, if he didnt roll with me, I can usualy be in a position to take his 6 within about 3 seconds. I guess it's kind of like a lead turn.

snip

: 9) Field defense is tough one in the Hog- better to take off away from the action and interdict the string of heavies otw to the target rather than furball off the runway. If you are low and slow, roll and keep the nose as low as possible. If you stall, do not cut the engine..reduce throttle and then ease it back up- stalls below 3,000 ft are pretty much a lost cause, but I have recovered a few.

stalls are pretty easy to recover from, it's the dreaded flat spin that I hate. I did learn that if I get into a flat spin, I apply full throttle and forward pressure on the stick.

: 10) Trim to dive- use the auto-trim angle feature to trim for higher speeds as you dive, and use F12 to center the stick on pull out.

2 weeks ago in the PAC HA I learned that the f4u can out turn zekes very easily. Just keep your speed over 375 in a nose down attitude. You dont have to yank back on the stick either. At this speed the zeke compresses realy fast and you are on his 6 with in 2 turns...

Udie

Posted by: Rojo (S-2, The Buccaneers)

Message:

[Rojo adds in some information on the F4F vs F6F-front]

Not a F4F/F6F guru or anything, but I'll give it a shot. Basically, the F6F does everything the F4F does, only better. Both are fairly nimble for their size, but the greater horsepower and reduced drag of the F6F means you can fight in the vertical. Both are primarly BnZ planes, with identical armament (think the Hellcat has a bigger clip than the Wildcat). Both are fairly durable, though prone to elevator damage, and the radial engines mean that coolent leaks will not shut you down as quickly as in the in-line type engines. Both can out turn perhaps two-thirds of the fighters in the game. Both have respectable if not stellar roll-rates, and both are very stable gun platforms. And, they can really dive like a rocket-propelled freight train. Hope this helps.

Rojo

DOH! Thought you said F4F vs F6F...my bad. (nt) - Rojo (The Buccaneers)