sudave posted 03-31-99 05:11 PM         

<S> gentlemen I looking for tips and or webpages on how to fly the P-47 correctly. I would greatly appreciate all your input in this matter THX <S>

Fletchman posted 03-31-99 06:15 PM            

try:

http://members.home.net/mefletcher/wbp.html

Vicious posted 03-31-99 06:19 PM            

I would reveal my secrets but I'm fearful that you would use them against the Purple Empire and desecrate Barney's Love.

I recall having to smite you for bouncing my Jug the other night.

Vicious -vics-

Hell's Aces <+J

"Jugmeister"

Daff posted 03-31-99 11:13 PM            

I'm currently working on a "general" guide to the 47...hope to have it finished sometime soon ..but as such, there's no real "trick" to flying it...just be very careful .

My best advice is to fly it with a very light hand. What helped me alot, was to furball in it <G>. Take it up with less than 40% fuel and it's quite responsive.

Flying the D with the myriads of SpitXIV's, P51's & Ki84's around doesnt make it easier, so my favourite period is when the C is available, where you can still outrun most planes, should the situation get hot.

Also never take the max ammo load, unless you plan to stick with pure BnZ..it adds an extra 500+ lbs and severely penalizes it's handling.

Daff

56th Fighter Group

Vicious posted 03-31-99 11:28 PM            

Don't take max-ammo? Sheesh, now I've heard everything.

Don't ever load BOMBS . . they can add 1500 to 2000 pounds.

Vicious -vics-

Hell's Aces <+J

"Jugmeister"

Rebel posted 04-01-99 02:05 AM            

Jug.....mmmmm.....Okay, pal. If ya wanna learn how to fly a jug......well, be prepared. It's a VERY hard plane to master and to do well in. In Vic's words "Die Experten only need apply". My only suggestion is to work on your vertical maneuvering skills, then go into the jug, and slug around until you're good. Ask Vics for tips if you want(Note: you HAVE to fly for purple, hehehe ). But, for god's sake don't give up. The thing is so cool, and such a challenge, every kill feels like a million. Also, you might wanna work on gunnery. Every shot you get seems to last a split second. Makes ya thank god for that extra pair of 50's.

There are also benefits to flying this beast. It will make you a smarter fighter in every other aircraft. I flew Jug all last tour (and the tour before that, and the tour before that. hehehe) and now I went back to my Stang for a bit, and I have a 5/1 K/D ratio. I can still be caught in the Jug quite often, but I'm not as good as I wanna be yet.

-Rebel out-

487th Lil' Bastards

VV!

Wells posted 04-01-99 02:54 AM            

You really have to discipline yourself to use the vertical as much as possible. It accelerates in a dive real well and holds speed level very well. If you zoom, do it at a shallow angle. It has an advantage at the edge, near the stall over it's main rival, the Fw-190, so use that by pulling lots of split-s and immelmanns (He might make a mistake and stall or snap out). Carving figure-8's by combining the 2 maneuvers is a very good way to reverse on a Fw-190! If you die alot, that's ok, just don't die to your historical matchups! hehe

funked posted 04-01-99 06:50 PM            

Sudave I'm no P-47 master, but here's some rules that will get you in the ballpark.

1. Don't take more fuel or ammo than you need. The difference in performance between 50% fuel and 15% fuel is HUGE because the Jug carries so much fuel. Wells has some numbers on this.

2. Climb to 15k before thinking about engaging.

3. Watch the g-meter. Don't pull more than 3 g's unless you MUST clear a wingman or are very close to home.

4. Enter a turning battle only against an Fw 190A-8 or Fw 190D-9. Anything else can turn circles around you.

5. If you get into a battle like the one in Rule 4, use one notch of flaps. Remember to retract the flaps when you are not turning.

5. If you end up in a defensive situation, make all moves nose low. This means either diving till the wings shake or making all your turns toward the ground. Remember gravity is your friend! Nothing with a propeller can beat a P-47 in a dive.

It's a good plane, but you have to either be a stud like -vics- or -daff-, or else fly in a conservative fashion as detailed above. If you can accomplish both, LOOK OUT!

cabby posted 04-01-99 11:02 PM            

The Jug should really come into its own with the new gunnery model. Those lovely 8 50's will be even more handy i think. Also you might hang on to your Jug's elevator/stab longer with no more d-8 shots from pursuing Spit 14's.

Cabby

Maj(44th Spec. Ops. Squadron)

Crutch posted 04-02-99 03:49 AM            

I have found the bigest thing about the Jug is that you don't fly it you wear it. Once you reach that point in your familiarity with it, you will know just by the sound the engine makes if you have enough E for a vertical manoeuver, or if just one more notch of flaps will slide you onto that con's butt.

You will be able to wade into a fight take everyone on, fight toe-to-toe and kick butt ;-)

Use the time offline to practice your gunnery, do high speed (350+) passes on the aircraft and on the ground ack. When you get to the point where you can take out all the ack at a small field with just the guns of 1 plane, you're ready.

The best part of flying the Jug is getting those "how the hell did you do that" messages after a fight. Even if you lose the engagement, your opponent will never take another jug for granted. ;-)

So, be patient, all this takes time. But, it is worth the effort.

Crutch out

Grant Iddon posted 04-02-99 08:46 AM            

Check my Flight Test Department:

the data should point you in the right direction.......

mabee..........

Grant

Jokr posted 04-02-99 11:14 AM            

Heres some 'rules' that I came up with for P47 flying that I try to adhere to. I am not that great with it, only a 2.5/1 K/D average, but I have had some successful flights. Read, laugh, and don't spare the ammo!

1. Forget about looking good. ANY kill in a P47 is a good kill.

2. Get a lot of air under your wings. Find the nearest combat, and fly away from it. Get up high, at least 6k. Then dive in and dismember things.

3. The 47c turns better than a 47d, which turns like a truck on ice. Remember that.

4. Turning, per definition, is not what the 47 does. It falls at an angle while remaining airborne through stubborness, math, and pressure on the joystick.

5. Religon and the 47. It is important to believe in something of a higher power while in this plane.

6. Convergance. Try 400. If you get in close, like around d2 or so, you'll have the privildege on a dead six shot of taking BOTH wings off your victim. This is a lot of fun for 47 drivers.

7. The engine of the 47: it should be called Conan. The P51 has a Merlin. You whack a Merlin in the head, and it dies pretty quick. You whack a Conan in the head, it keeps going along for a pretty good time, then eventually dies, but not before putting up an epic struggle. I don't know the name of the 47 engine, so I'll call it Conan.

8. Max ammo loadout. Carry this ordinance loadout, and shoot at many things.

9. Attack strategies. Don't try to be subtle. A P47 is as subtle as a rookie whos excited to fly, skips the documents, skips training, and arrives at the arena and says "I"M NEW HERE< WHATS A GOOD PLANE TO FLY?" Keep enemies in front of you. Keep your airspeed above 250. The 47 has excellent roll capabilities, and you should use these instead of trying any sissy turning stuff. For example: an enemy is ahead of you and closing, and is about d40 away. There are other purps around, but you're in front of the pack. Let him fly under you, and roll that big ugly thing around onto its back, and dive at him. Even if you don't get a kill, this looks extremely cool and usually scares the bejesus out of the enemy.

10. Defense strategies. Dive, and use the radio a lot. Scissors are good to use, but not usually. Pray a lot for squaddie intervention.

11. Coordination. Keep squaddies around you if you can, if only for the reason that everyone wants to shoot down Daddy cause now he's infamous for a 100+ streak. Shoot these bad people with the eight wonderful machineguns.

12. When to rtb: if the Conan has been hit for already 8 minutes, its a good time to go home. Elevator missing, good time also. V or H stab, well, you've got a liferaft. One aileron missing, stay there. You don't need to turn anyway. Rudder, that ones up to you. I like it however. One side of guns damaged, rtb. The 47 is only a great danger when it has all its guns.

13. Things you can do with a 47. Kill other things, catch a fleeing Mossy at 420 IAS, make chaff out of other planes, mop up on ground attack missions, take down a fuel tank with about 30% ammo, or any other structure that needs a 500lb bomb usually, and scare the bejesus out of other people who also know that somehow you have managed to make a 17 ton monster FLY.

14. Things not to do. Don't turn. This makes a better target profile. Don't draw too much attention to yourself, as you are already wearing a 'big fat target' sign when you're D30 to any enemy. Don't fly solo, unless you don't care what happens to you. Don't be afraid to shoot at anything, as you have gobs and gobs of ammo. I have, on squad nights, when we're attacking an enemy base, run out of fuel way before running out of ammo. Don't try to head back on an attack angle without having good alt and speed. A low slow 47 is a low slow kill for any defender in a spit.

And remember to give yourself at least 3K of room to pull up from a dive.

Hope this made you both laugh and think.

Jokr

Vicious posted 04-05-99 02:13 PM            

The fact is that gravity is the Jugs worst enemy. Read this, it may help you fly ALL the planes.

http://www.netwood.net/~images/vectors.htm

------------------

Vicious -vics-

Hell's Aces <+J

"Jugmeister"

Bombom posted 04-05-99 06:34 PM            

Nice pics, real nice

As for flying it, I adher to one rule only: to engage on MY terms, not the bandit's. These terms usually boil down to 400 knots heheheh

Crutch posted 04-05-99 07:24 PM            

Let's get some Jug only training sessions going.

Is there any way to "book" training areas for type specific training.

I would be willing to volunteer some time to train, and would definitly be open to picking up some tips and tricks from other Juggers.

Ps. this is not just a "JUG" idea, it can be usefull for any of the plane types.

Crutch out