Posted by: Hptm Fenris 1/JG27 Afrika

Message:

Hi all,

I used to be able to bring home a vatorless bird but I haven't managed it for some time now.

Could I get some tips on how to successfully land without the elevator. Especially for LW a/c.

Thanks
Fen - out

Posted by: Jonnyg

Message:

I get it home 9 times out of 10 these days Fen, usually in Lw a/c.

I usually throttle well back well away from my airfield. THen lower my undercarriage and throttle back up again, therefore sticking it down.

It gets way dangerous getting slow on final to get your u/c down...

Even without a vator, u seem to till be able to slightly influence your vert attitude with stick, like after losing your rudder, u can still put a tiny bit of rudder on..

Just set up your descent so that you dont bounce and hold it there using stick and throttle to maintain glide slope...

109 is easy, 190 harder w/out vator...

Jon

Posted by: Oliver 'inet' Schwarz

Message:

: Could I get some tips on how to successfully land without the elevator. Especially for LW a/c.

I will be called a dweeb after this, but here it comes. :)

0.1 NEVER apply flaps.

1. idle your eng, pull up. When your speed goes under 300km/h (for FWs, 109s somewhat lower) lower gear. Back to full power. Start descend.

2. try to line up the field with the combination of the little stick authority you have and rudder. This maybe the hardest part, can take quite a while.

3. If you have lined up, start desend to 300-500 meters. Try to hold your alt, by applying stick and the throttle (100% pulls up normally, idle goes down.).

4. Dont be afraid, to touch down at high speeds (fe 400km/h even 450km/h is possible), what is important is the angle of your ac, should be around 0 (controlled by stick and throttle).

5. Keep your brakes pressed all the time. Even if u going to bounce of the ground, every bit helps.

As everything this needs some practice. But my ratio for LW aircrafts is around 95% save landings. For the dweeb move with the gear, i agree to all of you that this shouldnt be possible and this is a bug. I am using it, that makes me a dweeb. On the other hand if it werent possible, i would practice belly landings. :)

Oliver alias inet

ps: excuse my especially poor english when it comes to technical things, if some things are unclear email me i will try to explain it some other way. :)

Posted by: Jekyll - RAAF Squadron

Message:

This is going to sound like lunacy.... but it seems to work for me, at least in 190's.

You have to come in fairly hot.... 250-275 mph is the speed I try for. You also have to come in really flat (that goes without saying).

The idea is to belly-land the aircraft at the start of the runway... gear up. What usually happens is that the grazing impact does two things:

1. Washes off about 30-50 kts in an instant

2. Bounces the plane back up with a slight nose-up attitude.

Then you drop the gear and set her down as pretty as a picture.

Try it.... it works!

Posted by: Mallard

Message: : I used to be able to bring home a vatorless bird but I haven't managed it for some time now.

That has always bugged me about WB. No pilot in their right mind would try to land a plane without an elevator. The only reasonable thing to do is bail before the plane pitches into the ground. This is especially true for heavy, high powered warbirds. Imagine such a beast with no pitch control. Imagine trying to flare or even fly into the runway. I think the parachute is the best way down in this situation.

I know the Souix city jet crash-landed without controls but I suggest any WW2 vintage plane wouldnt have the luxury. I suspect that if it were possible, the airliner captain would have prefered to have everyone bail too.

I saw some Chair Parachutes from the 1920's designed so as to allow airliner passengers to simply harness themselves into the chair and walk away with the upholstery. The designers really thought airline passengers would jump in an emergency.

Mal

Posted by: Thekid Co NJGr 10

Message: : Could I get some tips on how to successfully land without the elevator. Especially for LW a/c.

: Thanks

: Fen - out

Fen I guess the best advice I can give you as a LW plane lover is,

1) Don't' Use your Flaps.

2) make sure you have a good line up when landing.

3) Don't drop your gear till the last minute.

4) Throttle your engine, don't be afraid to give it to much speed you can alway do a re-approach. If you cut the throotle to much "BOOM"!

5) Most LW planes can handle landing at 200mph over even more. I have landed a FW A8 at 250 mph with no elevator. Just make sure you use your rudder pedals and brakes real quick.

6) Read 1-4 again, if this doesn't work call snak at home. He would be happy to train you 8-)!

Posted by: Disco Fever ==df==

Message:

: 3) Don't drop your gear till the last minute.

: Thekid

Actually drop it well ahead of when you normally would. Without the elevator, you won't be able to drop flaps or do a manuver to burn a lot of E at the last minute. Nothing worse than lining up perfectly just about to touch down and your going to fast to get your gear down. If you do a "fly by" it can take a while to get back around and setup for the next landing attempt - drop your gear early.

-Disco Fever ==df==

Posted by: Webs, CO 101 Red Squadron, IDF

Message:

: 5) Most LW planes can handle landing at 200mph over even more. I have landed a FW A8 at 250 mph with no elevator. Just make sure you use your rudder pedals and brakes real quick.

Don't bother with this. You'll just have to relaearn it in two weeks. [When version 2.5 is released - front]

Posted by: =hard=

Message:

All what the kid said. You want to keep your speed up somewhat to use what little elevator authority you have left. You wnat to esatablish your rate of descent early on. You want to minimize any need for pitch input as you cross the threshold.

hard