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P-40E vs Zeke composite screenshot by Troy Errthum

Posted by: -deft- -=Red Falcons=- VVS

Message:

Reversing a spit on your 6.

The p40e has superior roll rate through all speeds compared to the spit series (except maybe the 14). The p40e also turns better then the spitV (when you have sufficient speed to start).

So, the object of this lesson is to reverse on a spit commit to a shot and get the kill. This is a massive speed burn.

Scenario: Spit on your 6, speed and E about equal (or spit has slightly more). The initial goal is to get the spit out of sync with you. Nose down to 300 IAS as the spit approaches d6 off your 6, when the spit is ready to fire, hit and hold the I key (manual trim horz stab to dive) The spit, being faster, might red out a little as he noses down to reaquire you. During this brief period level your plane and autocenter your stick.

Immediattely after centering your stick, hit the L key a couple of times (vert stab trim to turn right) and rudder and bank right break hard briefly. Gradually roll back to level while gradually climbing.

You should be going in approximately the same direction as when you started. When you achieve about a 40% climb angle, rudder and bank left and roll over into a dive (click J key a couple of times).

As you are inverted, flick roll back to level (complete a very very loose barrel roll with a tight flick roll finish) and nose up slightly. The very beginning of this maneuver is executed slowly, you want the spit to be slightly out of sync with you, but not so much that he doesn't commit.

When you break right you present a nice shot oppurtunity. As the spit banks, you roll back and pull up which puts you out of his view for a second. You knock him a bit more out of sync. When he reaquires you and starts to follow you up, you execute the remainder of the maenuver very quickly. (which he cant roll with)

If you do it correctly, and the spit commits, the final flick roll should put you to the left and low rear of the spit. You should be prepared to bank right to chase the spit, a lot of them seem to take off in that direction after you gank their 6 from them. You have to be cautious as your at a much lower speed then when you started, and your engine torques to the left (watch for a mild stall).

If you can't hang with the spit when he breaks right, pull nose up and force a slight stall so you can hammerhead. Hammerhead opposite the direction the spit turned. Reverse and take the last chance you have at killing him in a partial HO (after this its a losing E game). If you miss dive on past the HO and run :)

You will burn alot of energy moving your elevator and rudder setting up for the ending flick roll, but the spit looses energy trying to roll with you.

This should provide ample oppurtunity to kill the spit prior to this happening.

deft

Posted by: Rafter F/L

Message:

Can't speak for anyone else in my squad, but if I was gaining on a P40 in this fashion and he nosed-down, I'd disengage and zoom back up looking to reaquire.

2 cents from a Spit driver.

--

Rafter F/L

Posted by: Stiglr Stab/JG5 Eismeer

Message:

if you're in a 109, a P-40 that's under you is a *dead* P-40, unless somebody comes to help him, or the 109 driver does something stupid or gets distracted.

The -40s low climb rate makes the 109 untouchable, able to attack and disengage at will. So unless the -40s have the 109 outnumbered, the 109 makes a mistake or something drastic happens, the 'Hawk pilot's a deadman.

Posted by: ik Jagdgeschwader 77

Message:

My favorite thing is to toy with them and drag the whole thing out. Don't let them escape, and always stay outta reach, and then the inevitable happens :)

ik

Message:

A flick roll is when you slap your stick hard in the direction of the roll and immediately recenter the stick. The spit overshoots because he is going faster, and has commited to fly in the same direction as you through the maneuver.

Deft

Posted by: Stiglr Stab/JG5 Eismeer

Message:

A *real* question, and not asked in a sarcastic manner:

Is this flick roll a "real" maneuver, or just a way to induce a warp roll in WB?

Or, in other words, if you just "slap" the stick, will the plane jink enough and long enough so that a "real" pilot would see the fake roll and react to it? Or would you really have to stay in the roll longer and "sell it" to your adversary before reversing?

Seriously curious here...

Posted by: -deft- -=red falcons=- VVS

Message:

I guess you would have to ik or someone who has been on my six what it looks like. I despise people that use warp rolling to escape and I hope I never appeared to anyone like that while they were persuing me!

I dont know that a "flick" roll is a real manuever either! It's just what I call it since you flick the stick. (execute a quick quarter roll, or snap roll)

Since the move is very short and there is no, or very little change in your position relative to another plane I doubt it induces warp.

From my experience warp rollers use alot of rolling back and forth and quick altitude changes.

Posted by: =vila=

Message:

Mike Spick's MODERN AIR COMBAT has a great illuistration of this move....he calls it a "defensive barrel roll". The book is about jets, but has a good section on ACM with good diagrams.

Vila

Posted by: gunsgg 450th cottontails

Message:

First of all, know this....If you get a message saying that it was gunsgg that shot you down, you are having a VERY bad day! I probably have the distinction of being the WORST fighter pilot in WarBirds. I am waiting for IMOL to give out pity points for free hours, in which case I may never have to pay again. This is the main reason I belong to a bomber squadron. I can drop an egg down your chimney though, so I DO hold up my end :-)

Back to the P40....How I wish the B model had an extra pair of fifties, as it is probably the easiest plane in WBs to fly, not to mention that gorgeous shark mouth that I fell in love with as a kid, dreaming of dropping zeros out of the sky with General Chenault and the AVG group in China. But it is the E model that can hold its own in WBs.

Start with LOTS of altitude, this plane is a bit anemic in the speed department, but don't let the speed build up much over 350 or a vertical manuver will feel like one of those bad dreams where you are trying to run, and your feet weigh a ton. Those six fifties will make short work of any of the lighter planes, and a lucky shot will take out an engine or pilot of a heavier one.

The main strength of this plane is the abillity to ROLL! When those tracers start coming over your shoulder, push the stick to the side and forward as far as you can, and at the same time chop the throttle and get the vertical view on the ol' hat switch and you will usually be treated to a view of your would be killer buzzing through the center of that big circle you just drew.

In a close in knife fight, drop the flaps one notch, and you can turn almost like a Spit, and can certainly out corkscrew turn one.

Now I am not saying this is even one of the best planes in WarBirds, it doesn't have a lot of punch, and it's slow, but it is certainly an easy plane to handle without a lot of black or red-outs, and if you know it's limitations will get you home in one piece. And it is a fighter with a very distinguished history in the USAAF.

Posted by: Rickenbacker

Message:

Another good P40 tactic is to drop straight down on a better turning enemy with your engine idle (unless he's got loads of E, or friends around :). No matter which way he turns your superior roll rate will let you roll onto his 6 before you level out and blow him away, and the speed won't build so fast that you lose control either.

Rickenbacker

Posted by: -deft-

Subject: how to trim your p40e Message

[same as the Manual Trim thread on the General page - front]

Any change in your aircrafts attitude and airspeed puts your plane out of trim. When you trim your aircraft on autolevel you are trimming for you current speed and attitude. Most of the following is information I have from experience in the p40 but can probably be adjusted to work with other aircraft. click fly (or type .fly for you keyboard dweebs) as soon as you appear on the runway and prior to starting your engine hit F12.

Be sure to not have your hand on your joystick and that it is in the upright position with the dinner tray securely locked into the seat in front of you. ( be sure to clear the tray of complimentary peanuts prior to doing so)

Once in flight, your airplane is now out of trim! Get to cruising at a reasonable altitude and auto level your aircraft. Once the plane is level and at cruising speed, let go of your stick and hit F12 yet again. ( you should take the oppurtunity to auto level your aircraft and hit f12 every time you are not engaged )

Now to the part that counts.......combat......

I, K (manual horz stab trim)

J, L (manual vert stab trim)

, . (manual aerlon trim)

In Warbirds Keyboard setup, these trims are listed as elevator, rudder, and aerlon trim (respectively). However, these listings are inacurate.

I assure you you are actually trimming the stab (otherwise it wouldnt work when your rudder or elevator was gone)

The question was asked how do I retrim to level when in combat. Do I count clicks? I have the trim keys mapped to a hat switch (set to auto repeat) so I cant count clicks. I don't auto trim and f12 during combat. I have been flying with trim for so long I can just "feel" the airplanes current trim and know what needs to be adjusted to get the trim I want.

Tips:

High torque engines (spit, yak ect) can cause your plane to bank in the direction of engine torque at low speeds. This can make it very difficult to get a good clean shot off on a con (especially if he is banking in the direction of your engine torque). Use the J and L keys to trim your plane to counteract the engine torque. This is especially usefull in low speed turning fights.

When a BnZ plane is diving on your six, loose barrel rolls can make them miss almost 100% of the time. The key is to maintain as much energy through the barrel roll as possible to get a passing shot as the enemy plane overshoots. The key to this is to keep your planes nose pointed to the center of the barrel roll. Using rudder, aerlon, and rudder is not the correct way to do a loose low e burning barrel roll. Use Vert stab trim to get a correct barrel roll. Trim your vert stab in the direction you wish to roll then roll as normal. Your airplane will barrel roll, but the roll wont be "tight" around the central axis of the roll (thus the term loose).

My favorite tactic in the p40e is a reversal on spits that are d10 or so off my 6. I pull vertical (what you should not normally do). The spit will of course follow. I then trim hard to climb and cause my rear stabs AOT to excede stall. This causes a hard rear slip in the rear of your aircraft that effectively reverses direction. At the moment the tail starts to slide out from under your aircraft trim hard back down (to dive) and use rudder and aerlon roll to trim and roll left (in the direction of engine torque in a p40) to recover quickly. This will give you a firing solution on the persuing plane with him below you cockpit up and you inverted diving down. If you dont kill him this pass dive to the deck and extend away, you should still have d10 distance (or more) by the time the spit turns around to chase. So, you goofy dweebfires......yes the red p40e always pulls this move to the right and not the left. (this knowledge still wont save you)

BnZ mode: Go ahead and enter that dive on a distant lo alt con. Aim for a point about d20 behind and below the enemy plane. Use manual hstab trim to keep your nose down during the dive (with a little practice, you will know how much is need prior to even entering the dive and can adjust before you nose down) Once d20 behind the enemy con you should be between 1.5 and 2000 feet below his 6. Trim back to level. From this point on I use manual trim exclusively to track the target. The p40e is notoriously unresponsive at speeds over 350 mph IAS and most cons incorrectly assume you can not get an angle if they break softly (if they saw you at all). I would guestimate that 75% of planes that make a break move when a con is burning down on their six break right and down. So, anticipate a possible break move and be ready to roll right to get a passing shot should that happen.

FW190's vs p40e: When diving on a fw190 from upon high they can't escape even with their superior speed. A good fw190 pilot will take advantage of your p40's poor turning ability at such speeds and do a gentle turn and increasing the amount of turn as they break.

If you trim your hstab and try to keep up with the fw you will black out. When you come too, he will be some d20 away and on his merry way. When diving on the fw and he makes his break move trim into a climb, roll in the direction of the turn and grab until your speed bleeds down to 300mph IAS. Now adjust your turn to line back up on the fw190 and trim down into a dive and reaquire him.

Zekes: Dive on zekes from below their six and pull up directly in front of them. They are usually stunned to see a p40 do this and immediattely set to chasing you into the vertical. Use your excellent power climb to climb away. When you have achieved +d10 seperation flip on your back and fly level while inverted (pay close attention to the oil gauge). As the zeke starts to drop speed and fall away, wait for them to hint at pulling out of the climb, and nose down on them and fire away.

I could go on and on. I hope I didnt bore you with this useless drivel :)

Deft

[P-40 in the Historical Arena - front]

Posted by: -bmbm-, CO RSAF

Posted on: 11/17/98

Message:

HA rocks. Not only due to the matchup and limited iconage, but because most of the guys who fly there are really, really good.

Quite a few guys seemed to sit on top and skim off the inevitable low furball. I had some high-class armpit fights that went UP instead of down.

I flew the P40 because A) it handles better in the dive B) superior roll rate at high speeds C) smaller target D) better overall visibility, in comparison to the FTD ["Fork Tailed Devil" = P-38]. And ended up doing none to badly, without dying once :-)

BB

DExM (HA)

A Zeke gets riddled - click to enlarge

Posted by: gunsgg 450th cottontails

Message:

The P40, in both B&E models, is my aircraft. I fly it every chance I get until the late war aircraft make survival impossible. Flying it against the zeros in HA was beautiful, as thats where it really shines. I like to fly the B model in the main arena against spit drivers as the spit seems to be the craft of choice for those who haven't studied other craft(with some very notable exceptions!). The B model does very well with a 3000' hard floor, leaving enough room for a rolling turn, a manuver that seems to confuse the hell out of most dweebfires. (I want to admit here that a P40 is meet on the table for a GOOD spitdriver). The roll rate of the P40 ensures that any in front of it are dead provided there is enough "E", but NEVER turn fight or you may count your remaining time in the air in seconds!