| P-51D .50 Calibre MGs |
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| Last update - 02 November 1998 |
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Posted by: dncer Message: Is it me, or did the P51 D 50's take a hit in 2.5. Blasting away and nothing. I keep hitting the targets but the guns seem like they lost there punch. Has anyone else seen this? |
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Posted by: Eman Message: I had heard talk that it seemed the 50 cals were weaker than in 2.01 but after flying the 51D this morning and landing an 8 kill sortie I would tend to disagree. Gunnery modeling and aiming certainly is different but as for punch it seems equal to or better than before. I have only got 8 kills once before in the 51 after flying it for 2 years or more so my feeling is they acually hit harder now. Eman
Posted by: =kjbl= Message: : I keep hitting the targets but the guns seem like they lost there punch. : Has anyone else seen this? I've only flown one sortie in the 51d...ok only one sortie since the reset, but I ended up with 4 kills and a successful 'rtb'. One of the kills was a manuever kill, the other 3 were guns kills. The guns hits seemed to do the expected amount of damage. Based on that, admittedly limited experience in the r1 51, I'd say it's just fine. The 50's certainly don't have the punch of cannons, so you've got to put a bunch of them on the target to disable it. Convergence and gunnery distance are more important with guns vs cannons. =kjbl=
Posted by: -bmbm-, CO RSAF Message: : I keep hitting the targets but the guns seem like they lost there punch. : Has anyone else seen this? No, to the contrary, they seem much more lethal. Now if only gunnery would become unstuck... BB
Posted by: -fluf- 417 RCAF 'The Windsors' Message: I think you have to hold your burst on target. I just got an 8-kill sortie in a 51D today, which is a 1st for me in that plane - so I'd say the .50s hafta be as good or better. The planes which went down included several 110s, some spits and Ki-84s - so the hitting power seems decent to me.... -fluf-
Posted by: zuni Message: I was flying around in the P51 last night for many sorties and found it just fine. I had my convergence set low at 170, and made sure I was usually firing near and within convergence. One sortie got me 5 kills. Other sorties usually 3 or 4 kills. I found the guns effective as cannons at that range. : I keep hitting the targets but the guns seem like they lost there punch. : Has anyone else seen this?
Posted by: Hooligan Message: A few weeks back I used the "Stimpy Algorithm" (i.e. how many WB bursts to kill the CT) to compare the damage inflicted by the various guns in WBs. A subset of my original data post follows:
I just redid this in WB2.5r1 for the US .50cal, Hispano Suiza 20mm, and German MG151 20mm. First of all the Control Tower is now really tough so I tested the guns vs. the "shed" instead. Results: US .50cal 750 rnds to kill the shed / vs. 750 rnds to kill the tower in 2.01 HS 20mm 250 rnds to kill the shed / vs. 230 rnds to kill the tower in 2.01 MG151 20mm 250 rnds to kill the shed / vs. 235 rnds to kill the tower in 2.01 Since the target changed I can't really say if any of these have gotten better or worse in an absolute sense. However if I arbitrarily assume that the Hispano Suiza 20mm has remained the same. The new gun ratings for these 3 guns is:
This would indicate that the .50s have gotten 5%-10% better in relation to the 20mm guns. My personal experience in the arena is that the 6x.50cal armament is definitely more effective than it used to be. The differences I experience in gun lethality on days I am shooting well and days I am shooting poorly is huge, so this perceived improvement could easily be just problems in my perception. At most these are subtle differences and the effects of the new more accurate modeling of rate of fire makes the comparisons listed above less valid. In the new model a short tracking shot with 6x.50s has the potential to be more lethal since this would tend to pepper the target aircraft with more rounds in a more dispersed pattern giving more chances for a fuel hit and explosion or a pilot kill. Also, there are less "large # of rounds packets" hitting the target so individual pings are less likely to take off an elevator. The combination of these effects may make this armament either less or more deadly depending upon the duration of the shot, areas hit, type of target etc. In my personal experience, the 6x.50 cal armament seems better but I am quite willing to believe that this result varies greatly between pilots depending upon gun convergence, what type of shots they take and any number of other factors. Sometime soon I will do a "lethality test" on all of the 2.5r1 guns and post the results.
Posted by: kun (I./JG54) Message: It is my opinion that gunnery offline is at least 2x more lethal than online... only took a 2 sec burst with a 109k to kill a b17 offlinethis afternoon. kun
Posted by: Hooligan Message: : It is my opinion that gunnery offline is at least 2x more lethal than online... only took a 2 sec burst with a 109k to kill a b17 offlinethis afternoon. : kun Since these ratings are only comparative (i.e. a 20mm round does 3 times the damage of a .50cal round), the results should be valid as long as all gunnery is twice as effective offline. If for some strange reason IMOL has made offline gunnery act differently than on-line gunnery (with the obvious exception of the offline lethality setting), then all of this data is totally useless. But I can't imagine any reason that IMOL would want to do this, besides which the comparative values seem about right vis-a-vis my experience in the arena.
Posted by: Slyone (3/JG27) Message: : I keep hitting the targets but the guns seem like they lost there punch. : Has anyone else seen this? I spent a little time flying offline last night, and I was able to kill almost every plane in the sky with a 1/2 second burst ( the F6F took a 1 second burst before exploding). I haven't been online with the P-51 yet, so take it with a large grain of salt. Incidently, if you want to see the new gunnery model in effect (i.e. more bullets than tracers) just strafing the ground will show you how many more rounds are actually modeled now. I like it. Slyone (2.JG27)
Posted by: avin Message: Using a method that stimpy posted, the 2.01 calculated lethalities can be found at: http://indigo.ie/~frontacs/WBStored/LethalityAndFirepower.html It should be reasonably simple to calculate what has changed with the P51, and by how much. However, you need a control to make sure tower hardness hasn't changed. I'd use the P39D 37mm cannon for this, or the Bf109K's 30mm. afaik, they didn't adjust cannon lethality. avin
Posted by: Idiamn 1./Jagdgeschwader 27 Afrika Message: Havent flown the mustang in 2.5 yet, BUT, I have flown the FW190A4 and I DID notice that the guns SEEMED different. In the main I snuck up on an f4u and proceeded to blast him to bits, but it seemed that it took a looooooongg time before my 20's did the job. I attributed it to lag. BUT, when I snuck up on a Yak and did the same thing, I got the same results. Again I attributed it to lag. However, LAST night before the SL I was flying a ki 84 and took a fairly long shot at a p38 and blew him to bits with what seemed like a less amount of ammo than I used with the A4!!! Was weird because I was D2 and closer in the A4 (convergance was 225) and it seemed that that ki84's 2 20mm were MORE effective OUTSIDE of their convergance range than my A4's 4 20mm's INSIDE their convergance range..... Tis a bit odd to me. Dont know if it is a lag issue due to the warpiness I have been seeing, or if the gunnery model has been tweaked with, but I HAVE noticed a change. I feel your pain. C U above,
Posted by: chief- Message: No pure evidence here on this side, other than I seem to hit and hit with the .50's and get assists but no kills. I fought a BF109 at 25k+ earlier today in the MA finally got into a firing position splattered his aircraft along left wing root over cockpit and onto right wing at D2 he dove away smoking and RTB'ed apparently, because I didnt get a kill message. (good fight btw Gold) I think its with all .50 cal equiped aircraft, have had the same poor results in the F6F and the F4U. Maybe hit power has gone down along the board because of the new gunnery model, I dont know, but the .50's sure seem neutered once again. Chief |