Konrad posted 01-09-99 09:50 PM ET (US)        

Does the majority of the Warbirds community really believe the 109 is a terrable plane? Almost everytime it seems when I tell someone that my favorite plane is the 109 or that I think it is a great fighter I get laughed at. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would just like to know what makes most ppl think the 109 is a bad plane. I'm not trying to argue with anyone just want to know the reasoning behind their low opinion of this plane.

Let me first tell you why I think it is such a great fighter...

1. Great climb, all the 109 variants with the exeption of 109g vs spit9 have enough climb speed advantage over their enemies to climb away from most trouble, then turn it into a spiral climb and get on the opponents 6 or drag them for a wingman.

2. Speed, the 109E, 109F and 109K can outrun most of their opposition, the 109E is slightly slower than the P40 but here it has a HUGE climb advantage. And although the 109K is slightly slower than the Mustang it has much better acceleration and yes, you guessed it, an ENOURMOUS climb advantage.

3. Rudder, the rudder is very powerful and really lets you do some wild manuvers.

4. Dive, whatever the 109 cant outclimb or outrun or outmanuver, the only example of this being the 109G vs Spit9, it can outdive.

5. Small turn radius and instant turn, this allows it to keep up with a better sustained turning plane for long enough to get a good shot.

It also makes the many diffrent kinds of scissors very effective.

6. It is durable for its size and has quite a bit of armor. It has more armor and is more durable than a spit, this is important in a large fight.

7. Great evasives plane, the rudder and excellent ability to do neg-g manuvers allows for great evasives and make it hard to hit.

8. Looks, the later models are certainly some of the best lookers in the game.

These are my reasons for loving the 109. Just because it can not compete quite as well as spits or yaks or 190s in a 1v1 fight or a low alt, wingmanless furball does not mean a thing. I have never read an account of any lone 109 pilot trying to mix it up with a spit 1v1, it was all in the larger engagements, and these are usually won by the plane with better durability, firepower, and/or speed, whether it be vertical(climb) or horizontal. IMHO this plane was one of the best fighters of ww2, I believe it is the one that bagged the most kills in the war, and remained in service into the 1960s

I instantly fell in love with the 109 the first time I saw it and read a few things about it, and I would just like to know why so many ppl think its such a terrable fighter.

Konrad

Jg77

Kats posted 01-09-99 10:25 PM ET (US)            

Hehe, I have a hate/love relationship with 109's. Thing is they grow on you and you begin to feel uncomfortable in anything else.

I think the reason people don't like them is because the 109 forces you to play a different game, extremely lethal, but different. So initial failures turn alot of people off of them.

My favorite characterisitcs of them are:

#1 climb, #2 nose cannon, and the rudder.

Plus it does a really awesome hammerhead, best in the game.

Kun JG54 posted 01-09-99 11:03 PM ET (US)            

:Hehe, I have a hate/love relationship with 109's. Thing is they grow on you and you begin to feel uncomfortable in anything else.

Wow, you said it kats, I couldn't really put my finger on it before. I love flying US navy planes and a p51 every now and then, but almost always I find myself running back to my trusty 109g/k.

Interestingly enough I dislike flying the Emil in early war. It is a completely different situation, in which the 109 is almost a pure BnZ plane, rather than the crafty little thing that can turn the tables in a snap.

kun

Kodiak posted 01-10-99 12:22 AM ET (US)            

You are right Konrad, most of the community wouldnt be caught dead in a 109. I take that back....most of the community would be quickly dead in a 109! Lol. The 109s have advantages over spits but those advantages are razor thin. One screw up in a 109 and you are defensive. One screw up in a spit and you can still keep pulling on the stick. Same goes for mustangs and jugs and P38s. They can run away or dive away etc if they blow it. Flying perfectly the 109 pilot can win but one mistake and he is defensive. The 109s are great planes and I love em but very unforgiving in the arena.

Kodiak III./JG54

ik Jagdgeschwader 77 posted 01-10-99 02:18 AM ET (US)            

well anything that isnt a low altitude furballer is often shunned by the wb community

The 109 is not a BnZ plane, and it's not a furballer, it's an e fighter. E fighting is the skill least known by the warbirds crowd, and also the fighting style that takes the longest to learn. I'd say it's quite unique in that roll.

It is a greater challenge to get kills in the 109 than in most other planes. That alone is enough to keep others in their superspit.

Tschüß

ik

evey posted 01-10-99 02:52 AM ET (US)            

I agree however I sill cant get used to the brown colour of the franz.

Why did no-one mention the looks of the 109 it looks cool to me.

The Emil has got to be the best looking plane in WB.

Or am I just shallow? <G>

-evey-

249 Squadron.

With fists and Heels

Warbirds.

Val_DoD posted 01-10-99 04:07 AM ET (US)            

I love the Me109 above all others. At one time I was one of the top 10 109 jocks in the game. (At least thats what wulfie says after a few drinks at the con :-P). That was at least a year and a half ago.

The description above about how hard it is to fly the 109 well, is perfect. No other plane demands the respect and attention of its driver like the Me109 does.

I really need to get back into it. I seldom fly the LW planes anymore, after leaving my old LW squad. I feel unworthy :-P

It seems that people want the quick and easy kill, myself included lately. The 109 takes a craftsman at the wheel.

Nothing look sexier in WBs than the 109G in splinter camo :-) Although I do miss the Finnish markings a lot.

val

Vati posted 01-10-99 05:50 AM ET (US)            

Konrad why are you so worried about other ppl opinion?

If they think it's bad a/c, even better for us 109 drivers...

Vati

Bombom posted 01-10-99 07:34 AM ET (US)            

4. Dive, whatever the 109 cant outclimb or outrun or outmanuver, the only example of this being the 109G vs Spit9, it can outdive.

Say what? IME, the 109 locks up badly in extended dives. Even the SpitV is better, not to mention the yank planes (apart from the FTD).

------------------

-bmbm-, CO Royal Swedish Air Force

Fighting for Bullens Pilsnerkorv and lukewarm beer worldwide

After Action Report: http://www.rsaf.org/diary.shtml

IDIAMN 1 JG27 AFRIKA posted 01-10-99 09:28 AM ET (US)         

Kats said....

Hehe, I have a hate/love relationship with 109's...

HAHAHAHA....!!!! Aint that the damn truth!!!

I can tell you why some of the people I know dont fly the 109.

1. Speed. She isnt the fastest and can be caught and killed.

2. Turn. You cant just yank on the stick like you can in some birds.

3. Dive. She compresses at speed, and requires alot of manual trim input that most just dont use.

4. Armament. What...!!!! Only one lousy cannon???!!! She dont have alot of ammo either, AND, if you can believe this...alot of people dont like nose mounted guns!!!! Little do they know that those nose mounted birds shred aircraft, especially at d 1.5 and closer.

5. She isnt a furballer. Alot of people enjoy the "furball" aspect of WB's, and the 109 just isnt that great at furballing.

I fly the F and G models in the main when I'm not terrorizing people in a wurger. I hate with a passion "emil", and she hates me. The K model just dont handle good enough for me anymore, though it was my favorite back in the 1.11 version. (that and the f)

The "G" model pretty much ruled the HA last week and was a very fun plane to fly, (them poor jugs HATED us I bet heheheheh).

One of the biggest reasons I fly the 109 in the main is that people HATE getting killed by 109's hahahahaha They really dont consider it too big of a threat, especially the spit drivers and the p51's, not until they start losing control surfaces at least.

As far as I'm concerned, thats fine though. Let the naive and undisciplined fly their "better" aircraft, and I'll still kill them with my cunning, patience, and concentrated point blank gunfire.

C U above,

"Hey...nice cannons"

Idi

DGSBDY posted 01-10-99 10:01 AM ET (US)            

I flew the 109's exclusively except for bombing missions during the entire ToD until recently (DRDOOM has been corrupting me with the 190). I seem to be killing more in the FW with this gawd awful new gunnery model. I feel this is mainly because of my experience in the 109. It, I feel, is a very unforgiving aircraft and has honed my E fighting to a fine degree. The spiral climb is incredibly effective unless you have some one who knows the ropes and lags behind your turn, but most try and try to pull lead. Its almost hilarious. I feel my skills are very poor, even poorer than 2.0 for some reason , but I also believe that if these heroes hosing me from d10 were to be put in 109's their (quote)"hamburgerness" would become readily apparent. I love the 109 for its pointability, high rudder input and climb. I hate it for roll rate ( which I think is porked) and scant armament, True its centrally mounted armament is effective but with my atrocious marksmanship it takes a bigger hammer I also really love the "E", during its time. I dont understand ya'lls dislike as the early rps is when I tend to have a stellar score until the spitdweebs get their floatless carbs and frictionless wings . Keep flyin her Konrad or quit because the 109's are addictive and even though I am a former SPIT driver I just dont feel comfortable unless Im in that "toothless bucking bronco" of Willy Messershmitt's.

Stiglr posted 01-10-99 11:51 AM ET (US)            

I fly the 109 almost to exclusion, and love it. I find each model is different from the other, almost to the point that I feel I concentrate on *4* planes and not just one.

I want to thank Kats for his stewardship of 109 flying in JG27. He got me to learn the 109s in the first place, and patiently held my hand while I whined that the Emil had no ammo, the 109F was, and I quote myself to my own embarassment, "a weakly armed, compressing piece of shit".

Now, I have learned that the secret to the Emil is to set convergence super tight and only use the cannon for non-maneuvering targets and "finishing" low-G shots. Franz is my all-time favorite. Sweet ride. I can stay competitive in her through late '43, before I have to go Gustav, which for me is the worst of the series. She's overdesigned, sluggish handling, demands a lot of rudder authority (I constantly find myself out of plane when scissoring down low in G if I don't watch it like a hawk), but I like the guns. And she still matches up well against her contemporaries.

The K was the very last 109 I came to grips with. My earlier opinion about "compressing piece of shit" applied doubly to the Koenig. But, now my stick is set up so manual trim is under my thumb, so I can manage the speed and attendant compressibility. As for that 30mm "whuppin' stick", you just can't beat it. I was sold on it from the time I carefully, deliberately, took two, single round cannon-only shots on a P47 and watched the tail and then the rear fuselage strip away, one each second. Like picking the wings off a fly.

Anyone who doesn't appreciate the 109 series hasn't put in the time to learn her.There are other, more glamourous planes, and planes that excel at other things (like furballing), but the 109 is, for me, the Ride of the Experten!

By the way, isn't this a *suh-WEET* paint job???

Jagdgeschwader Funf Eismeer "The Hellspawn from Herdla"...one of a select few historically-based Luftwaffe squadrons, flying principly in the HA, SL, WW and other organized events.

janneh posted 01-10-99 11:57 AM ET (US)            

I've been flying 109F from a start of my WB gaming (about half year now). At first my only requirement was to fly LW plane and very first I tried 109G as Finnish pilots flew it during WW2. I found it much worse than 109F, allthought 109F's armouring sux. In fact, lack of decent armouring (and yes, those 'guns') is only big negative thing in 109F. As stated many times, 109 isn't best in anything, but it isn't worst either. Very strange plane after all. I tried to learn 190 few weeks, but only way for me to fly that wild bird was BnZ, which wasn't really fun, so I turned back to my 109F and now my K/D has dropped, but it's much enjoyable to knife fight instead of pretty boring BnZ. I really love 109F's roll rate, which is one of her best strength to count on. I always try to keep in my head "GO VERTICAL !!!" , but very often I forget it and found myself TnB with spits in low E ;( But while in vertical, 109F has many great options to execute. Wing Overs & Hammerheads are those (still learning )

4. Dive, whatever the 109 cant outclimb or outrun or outmanuver, the only example of this being the 109G vs Spit9, it can outdive.

Oh, can't agree that one...

6. It is durable for its size and has quite a bit of armor. It has more armor and is more durable than a spit, this is important in a large fight.

Has 109F armor?(all those nasty oil leaks..)

Anyway, I love this plane

I think I'll never turn my back to 109 again , that's a promise

janneh down and out !

Janneh / I. Jagdgeschwader-3'Udet'

home.4w.com/pages/woudenberg/JG3Pages/JG3Home.htm

Daff RSAF posted 01-10-99 12:37 PM ET (US)            

I learned to E-fight in the 109..not because I wanted to, but out of necessity :P. It's probably also the best plane to learn disengagement in as you need to know your enemys weakness in order to get away.

But "what it can't outclimb, etc, it can outdive"?..hmmm sure, if you know how to use the trimkeys ..but you can use those in other planes too, you know .

The P38 (J & L) can give it a fight in the climbing department, the L can easily dive with it and the J can follow with liberal use of trim and still maintain better aileron & rudder authoriy.

The Ki84 can compete in the climbing department and although it's a beast in fast dives, it can take more stress. (Not sure about topspeed) and it's high velocity 20mm's makes it fairly lethal, although its tailfeathers are very fragile.

But until late war, it is the disengagement king,

It is, as stiglr said, not very well armed .

The F & K are by far my favourite versions of the series....The E doesnt quite have enough climb & speed advantage and the G is a beast to handle...I almost had the G-series sorted at one point, didnt fly it for a while and now I think it's a useless piece of shit ..I have a lot of respect for people who can fly the G's and survive...I certainly can't.

But for now, I'm happy as long as I get my P-38/47/51.

Daff

Konrad posted 01-10-99 01:28 PM ET (US)            

Ummm, when I said "whatever it can't outmanuver, outrun, or outclimb, the only example of this being the 109G vs Spit9, it can outdive", I didn't mean it can outdive every plane. The 109 can outclimb pretty much any opponent of the variant's period, except for the 109g, which cannot out climb the Spit9. It also cannot outmanuver the spit9 or outrun it. But it does have better initial dive acceleration over the Spit9. Against the p38's it has better roll at low speed, making a scissors very effective, it can also outclimb the p38. The mustang it can outmanuver by a bit and easily outclimb it.

VATI: I am not worried about other ppls opinion of the plane, it is just strange to me how someone could think such a great plane is so bad. I am not a great pilot or anything, I've only been in Wb for 5 months, yet I can usually hold my own in the 109 against every other plane piloted by an above average pilot. There are just a few more moves you have to learn when you fight in the 109, like the spiral climb and diffrent variations of the scissors, as well as extending chases.

For me it is a great fighter, and it is just enjoyable to fly. Knife fighting spits is very fun in it, even if you don't always win the fight.

------------------

Konrad

Jg77

luigip posted 01-10-99 02:10 PM ET (US)         

I too do love flying 109. One thing: why do you all dislike the Emil? It still has a good capability of manouvering (even if only Marseille was able to turn inside a Spit with it). I mostly get killed rather then I kill, but on the 109E in early WPS it is very hard for the opponent to get me and my best score I achieve in the Emil in early war stage.

I love the 109 till the G version.

I do admit that sometime I also fly Yak 3 and Spit, just for to have this feeling of relaxed realism while flying full realism...

Finally, I don't think that the 109 is a bad bird, but I do suspect that it has been modelled with too strong "allies goggles"

see u online!

IDIAMN 1 JG27 AFRIKA posted 01-10-99 02:57 PM ET (US)         

" Why I hate emil."

By

idiamn

While flying emil in the HA against hurri's and p40's I could NOT, except for very rare occasions, rely on the following techniques:

1.Out climbing them.

Emil is supposed to be able to outclimb the hell out of hurris and p40's, but for some reason, I found them bastages stuck to my arse unless I had a HUGE e advantage goin into it. Didnt matter what fuel load I used either.

2.Out diving them.

Even with BIG manual trim inputs to aid while compressing, hurris were still able to pursue.

3. Out accelerating them.

Didnt seem to happen.

4.Out gunning them.

Might as well be throwing rocks. ANY type of deflection shot is a royal pain in the ass with those crappy low velocity cannons, and the MG's are pretty much worthless as well.

With its low e retention rate, and it's crappy guns, I have to stay very high in emil to do any damn good....I'm talkin 15k plus.

Only at the high alts could I feel pretty confidant in "emil". At the low alts, I pretty much felt useless.

Most of the kills I get in emil result in an nmy trying to follow a lw up in the air, therefore he is just hangin there all slow and ez meat for the 20mm love package. But if I'm chasin an nmy down, it would probably take the entire ammo load to kill em. (less I get a lucky pilot kill)

So as far as "emil" is concerned, it is a mutual hate/hate relationship. It dont like me, and I dont like it......

REPLY TO KONS POST BELOW.....................

Hello bro, yes I know all bout the climb etc...yada, yada, yada.....but in MY experience, ALL of the above is true. Maybe YOU can get emil to do wonders for you, but like I said, me and emil dont get along. I been flying 109's for awhile and am pretty familiar with their characteristics and how to exploit them.

BUT!!

Emil defies them. Me and a squaddie were sniveling about this while we were flying in the HA as wingies.

ME... "...this emil sucks ass"

squaddie... "....yup."

Only thing emil has goin for it is "cool points" for the paint job.

------------------

"Hey...nice cannons"

Idi

Konrad posted 01-10-99 03:27 PM ET (US)            

Idiamn, the 109E can easily outclimb the p40 and hurri, but that does not mean you can pull straight up and expect them to stall out sooner or to be unable to shoot at you. You have to do it in a sustained climb, allowing you to first gain some seperation so as to be out of their guns reach, then you can start a spiral climb which they will not be able to follow for shit, believe me, this works with every plane except for the Spit9, and sometimes the p38 might be able to pull hard enough to get guns on you, but if he misses he will have lost any speed he had at the start and youll be able to hammerhead on a big fat, slow, and juicy lunch. This for me is the best way to defeat all but one plane. (Yep its that bastardly Spit9 again )

If you are low and slow you still stand a chance by forcing overshoots and getting a snap shot with the powerful guns of the emil.

You can knock a wing or stab off a hurri or spit with a quick snap shot quite easily, works great most of the time.

------------------

Konrad

Jg77

leonid posted 01-10-99 05:26 PM ET (US)         

Konrad,

The Bf109 is a splendid plane!!! Just because most WB'ers have no clue about how to fly it doesn't mean it's bad! Before flying as part of the VVS I flew 109's almost exclusively. Everything you state makes it a truly unique fighter. Small wonder that the Luftwaffe experten picked it as their favorite aircraft. So what if other fighters like the P-51 can leave the fight - they'll never be able to come back either, unless they head out to the next 'county' to get alt

SnakeEyes posted 01-10-99 07:23 PM ET (US)            

When occupied by a pilot who knows how to fly it, the 109 is one heck of an opponent. The excellent rudder authority and small size make it a damn tough target.

However, there is no way in hell that the 109 is the best looking plane in Warbirds. The XIV, 51D, and F4U beat it hands down... in fact, it's not even close. The 109 does have an angular attractiveness, but isn't even in the same league as the aforementioned aircraft.

The 51 would take it outright if IMOL ever made one with the _right_ colors (*ahem FT*). Though I'd settle for at least one 51 with 8th AF colors (the 51 made its mark in the 8th AF, not the 9th).

o-o-o-

"SnakeEyes"

XO Fourth Fighter Group

Val_DoD posted 01-10-99 07:34 PM ET (US)            

In the HA I had a P-40 follow my Emil up form 10K-20K and he gained all the way!

Excuse me, but doesn't the real life Curtiss suffer from poor hi-alt performance? Not in WBs it doesn't!

In 1939 the Me109E was the highest performing AC in the world. The Spit1A was a close second. In WBs this is not the case. Why I don't know, but the relative differences between A/C do not seem correct.

I still love all 109 varients, I just question some of the modelling.

val

ra posted 01-10-99 08:37 PM ET (US)         

I forced myself to fly the 109 exclusively this TOD. I hoped it would grow on me, but it didn't. It lacks the characteristics I look for most: good high speed handling, good view under the gunsight, good firepower/ammo load. Climb rate doesn't mean crap to me, E-fighting is a tactic, not a characteristic. You can e-fight in a F4F, just don't enter a fight unless you have a good alt advantage. Takes a bit more patience in an F4F.

The 109 is a good Scenario plane, where it goes up against realistic opposition with a real mission, but for tooling around the MA its reputation as a dog is well deserved, IMO. Great character builder though.

--ra--

leonid posted 01-10-99 08:44 PM ET (US)         

To SnakeEyes:

You forgot to mention the beautiful lines of the Yakovlev aircraft. The Yak-9D/-3 are also things of beauty.

Karaya One posted 01-10-99 08:45 PM ET (US)            

The 109 is a very challenging plane to fly.

I have immense repsect for 109 drivers because it is at a disadvantage compared to other WB planes, especially at low levels.

I am a little stumped over the 2.xx+ versions because the climb rate seems to be less stellar. The P51B can be a big threat because of its climb rate.

The 109K was made a little more punchy. The 109G6R6 is a blast but dont expect to make it home often. Fly that one when a lot of your comrades are within helping range.

The 109 requires work. A constant waggle is needed to check visiblity and one must keep checking compression states. Foresight and strategy are needed for effective combat.

IMO, there is nothing like coming home in a 109 after a 5-6 kill sortie.

Karaya One

Flying Pigs Squadron

janneh posted 01-11-99 02:01 AM ET (US)            

To Karaya One :

Uh, 5-6 kills / sortie ! WTG !

For those numbers of kills in 109 you're good!

I remember once I flew 109G6 and was doing some kind of BnZ's to huge furball and landed my 4 kills in that sortie. I was so excited I almost crashed my plane when landing

If we only could have 109F flight characteristic in 109G6 ...

To SnakeEyes: IMO 109G6 IS one of the best looking planes in WB ! Yes, Spit is great too, but P-51 ? Looks like a pregnant cow to me

janneh down and out !

------------------

Janneh / I. Jagdgeschwader-3'Udet'

home.4w.com/pages/woudenberg/JG3Pages/JG3Home.htm

vadr posted 01-11-99 08:02 AM ET (US)            

Geez, I think you guys covred it all! I love the 109, as anyone whose flown with me knows. I do think the p38L is a handfull as an opponent, as is the Ki84. I like the bird for the reason someone above already mentioned: Winning in it is not intuitive, you have to learn how to fight it effectively, and it rewards you for your efforts. To me, that makes for a much more satisfying experience than diving into a furball and going round and round.

The Emil and Franz are my favs, I always look forward to the first week of the tour.

I must second Idi's comments above: There is something funny in the HA. I noticed it again last night, as the Hurri's stayed glued to my tail in the vertical.

Oh yeah, the paint jobs: I think The 109E is painted like a bird of "The Abbeville Boys", flying out of Calais circa 1940. Forget which JG that was (51?). The P51 is painted like a bird from "The Tuskegee Airmen". Forget that squadron designation as well.

-vadr (JG27) out.

dhog posted 01-11-99 08:33 AM ET (US)            

Uh, that would be the 332nd, Vadr.

dhog, XO, 332nd FS, Black Aces

EK posted 01-11-99 09:09 AM ET (US)            

Hey Vadr.

I think the "Abbeville Boys" was the RAF nickname on JG 26 named after their location in France.

As for the Bf-109, its not bad just very demanding, as it was according to various sources in "real life".

egilen

Stiglr posted 01-11-99 12:36 PM ET (US)            

OK, we seem to have reached some consensus about the 109; a plane for the experten, one that demands knowledge of (as well as of your opponent) to fly. Ganz gut!!! But....

What about these charges that it's been shortchanged a bit vs. some of its Warbirds opponents??? (Lazs: don't even *bring up* the view thing; we're talking flight performance here! )The charges of porked "relative modeling" have yet to be answered. Can anyone at iMOL respond to this?

I, too, have noticed occasions where I'm carefully rope-adoping a Hurri or a P-40 and he stays with me in the climb for far too long. This weekend in the Malta HA I was one of a couple of guys who noticed that the Spits seemed to really be on steroids!!!! Super, super fast by comparison (and of course, the turn was better). You had no chance of diving away from them...I was almost SURE they were 9s!!!

In Gs vs. P-51s, I've *never* felt I could just climb away from a Stang. The few times I tried it, I lost some tail feathers. Not sure if this was an E differential thing, but I can remember quite a few times when I was tracking the Stang long enough or doing a sustained extension climb long enough to know that the Stang HAD to have lost a lot of its E; but there it was, keeping up in the climb....

Trying not to whine here, but I hate getting beat at my own game. Any anecdotal (or other) evidence to prove or refute these "porked relative modelling" charges?

P.S., snke: I take umbrage that the 109 looks less attractive than a Hose-Nose, Flying-Corn-Cob of an F4U!!!!

------------------

Jagdgeschwader Funf Eismeer "The Hellspawn from Herdla"...one of a select few historically-based Luftwaffe squadrons, flying principly in the HA, SL, WW and other organized events.

SnakeEyes posted 01-11-99 12:52 PM ET (US)            

Stig... I'd suspect that the 51 had more E that you had guessed. The 51 definitely won't stay with a 109 climbing.

quote:

P.S., snke: I take umbrage that the 109 looks less attractive than a Hose-Nose, Flying-Corn-Cob of an F4U!!!!

Hey, don't complain, I considered putting a shiny, new 47D ahead of it too. But there's definitely a mystique about a big, badass Hawg that definitely puts it up there with the pretty boys.

o-o-o-

"SnakeEyes"

XO Fourth Fighter Group

Daff RSAF posted 01-11-99 01:01 PM ET (US)            

Stiglr: Yeah...some time ago in HA, I was working on a spit, when 2 ponies showed up in the distance. I disengaged, and started to run away. Despite they initially were closing fast, I dragged them all the way up to 32k before diving down to my own ack (takes a lot of split-s', I tell ya, from up there).

Soooo...when I can do it in a G6R6... :P

(Had to be said I was low on fuel, but also out of WEP)

Daff

Bino posted 01-11-99 01:10 PM ET (US)            

Yes, the 109 really is that bad. You should not fly it. Only I should fly it. You should not know how it performs. Only I should know. If you fly it, you will die. If I fly it, you will die.

PS:

Today is Day One of a new Tour Of Duty: Emil Night in the MA! YeeeeeeHAH!

funked posted 01-11-99 01:53 PM ET (US)            

Yeah Emil night woohoo! I like Jet Day too. Kinda cool how Messerschmitt starts on top of the fighter food chain and finishes up the war there too!

Funked Up

=925 CABS=

Mors Ab Alto!

Karaya One posted 01-11-99 05:58 PM ET (US)            

To Janneh:

Thanks for your good wishes I am so rusty right now I would be lucky to get 1 kill.

However, my favorite ride was always the 109K, prior to the P38.

I love the E model, F but never could really dig the Gustav. I faired much better in the G6R6 than the G.

All are good planes. Sometimes it is profitable to be selective with your encounters.

Stay above those that threaten you:::attack those who are less superior. Then again...I was always into landing my kills.

HorridOink.

K1

vadr posted 01-11-99 07:13 PM ET (US)            

I defer to the expertise of EK and DHOG above. Thanks for the reminders guys, been awhile since I looked up that stuff.

Dhog, ever been to Tuskegee? Nice little airport there these days, not where the 332nd trained though. I fly in there a bunch, most of my family lives in that area.

<S>

-vadr- out

Konrad posted 01-11-99 07:38 PM ET (US)            

Stig P51 climb with a 109? The bastage prolly just did a lot of spray and pray from d10 or so, prolly hatch was at the controls

Outclimbing does not mean that you he will stall out after climbing with you for 30 seconds. The 109G climbs at approx 4100 ft per min, the P-51D climbs at approx 3500 fpm

That does not mean that he will stall off first, just that after maybe 3 minutes of climbing you will be out of his reach. Unfortunatley the 'lazer' .50s and large ammo load of the stang means he will most likely pull some lead in your ass in those few min.

Konrad

Jg77