Ragtime posted 12-10-98 02:25 PM ET (US)        

I know I do. <G>

Fairly maneuverable, it can take some punishment, and ho boy can it dish it out.

It's got the biggest gun in the game which, while tricky to use, can serve up some serious mayhem once you master it.

And then there's ALL those 50s in the nose... <G>. I was doing some close-in ground assault on an enemy field last night; I'd just taken out 2 acks with the cannon and one with rkts, when a couple of the defenders attempted head-on attacks (a Spit and a 190). WRONG! :>

5 seconds, 2 kills, thankyouveramuch. Then a third kill a little later...

None of these kills were with Otto; all with that horrendous spray of death from the nose guns. <G>

This may be the best JABO A/C in the game, and certainly one of the most versatile.

What do you think?

Best,

Ragtime

Three things that are useless to a pilot:

1. Runway behind you;

2. Altitude above you, and;

3. fuel you left in the truck.

Boomr posted 12-10-98 02:40 PM ET (US)            

I LOVE that bird. Truthfully, the only reason I rarely fly it is you're almost sure to be mistaken for an ackstar.

The way I love to use it is load up on ord and fly on a typical JABO mission, make 2 passes one coming, turn around and one going in order to set up a high speed run for home and salvo off all my ord.

I know I shouldn't care since it's really not ackstarring but I guess it just gets to me. Literally you can light up an airfield and pretty much kill anything with your nose 50s up front that's within a 30 degree angle from your nose and still have enough e to escape.

I've gone on two pass raids like this and dropped 3-4 defending fighters easily, none with otto, and still made it back safe. It's just that people are bothered by the fact that they got killed so they go on 100 and say ackstar even though they were staring down the barrel of an extremely heavily armed plane booming at 300mph and truthfully otto wouldn't even be able to find the range before you've come and gone.

So I don't do it. But I'd encourage anyone to do it who's not as weak as me, it's a blast, you just unleash so much destructive fury, and anything in your sites is vaporized by snapshots, awesome rush.

Boomr-

funked posted 12-10-98 02:50 PM ET (US)            

It's a cool plane, but I prefer the accuracy of the Norden in the B-25J. Once you toggle 6 from the Norden you can dive in and use the rockets and the 4x50cal in the nose to good effect. Nothing like bouncing an unsuspecting FW with one of these!

If I could ever hit anything with the 75mm I might like the H better, but for now give me the J.

Funked Up

=925 CABS=

Mors Ab Alto!

Boomr posted 12-10-98 03:01 PM ET (US)            

I've always *assumed* the H was tougher. Not based on any evidence but since the H was more heavily armored in real life I just always figured it was in the game so I used it for JABO. Also, since you really don't have the e to manuever more than a few degrees(and survive) I prefer the heavier firepower up front.

Of course I'm not really a buffer so my preferences are biased in that direction. One question though... What ever became of suppresing ack?? Can we still do it? It was introduced in one revision but I'm not sure anymore, also it was difficult finding people to gun and work the ack for you with the gunner drop bug, etc. I think suppressing ack would be way cool, Flying in low like the JU-88's in the movie Patton.

Boomr-

popeye posted 12-10-98 03:31 PM ET (US)            

I think the B-25H is a great plane, but it's difficult to use it for ground attack, with Otto enabled, without smelling a little like an ackstar. (I guess if fighters follow when you extend, they deserve to deal with Otto.) If it's used to attack other planes, turn off the Otto, or it'll STINK of ackstar.

popeye

Baxl CO Pale Riders posted 12-10-98 04:05 PM ET (US)

Thank You Ragtime! Great post!

Nothing wreaks havoc like a good old 25H Low level run. If you've never tried it, you're missing out on what is IMHO the very best experience in the MA. My squad specializes in this type of run. And here's how ya do it:

Fly fast and low under the radar umbrella until aproximately 3 miles out. Then go to 100% and zoom climb to 1000 ft. Start "walking" the 75mm's in toward yer ack target. With practice, this is devastating. 3 or 4 guys skilled with the 75mm cannon can destroy all the acks in one pass. Then there's still plenty of rocks & eggs to use on the other targets.

This is not ackstarring at all. This is a tactical ground attack, and you use all the weapons at your disposal. Did the real life gunners on the 25 shoot at Japanese planes taking off on the runway during their attacks on Japanese fields? Absolutely!

DISCLAIMER: I do not condone people who take off in any buff and just circle a given field with the intent of using their otto for vulching or as flying AAA.

There is only one proper way to use the 25H in the arena: low-level ground attack. And the feeling of returning to base after an attack is very satisfying. Usually with one engine dead and a gunner or two dead. Ah, what drama...I can't wait to be able to drop parafrags! Woohoo!

If anyone would like to ride along with the Pale Riders on one of our squad 25H low level runs, just send me an email and I'll arrange it. Only one catch...Ya gotta fly naked!

------------------

Baxl CO *Pale Riders Squadron*

"Fly Naked!"

Ragtime posted 12-10-98 05:40 PM ET (US)            

It's a shame when people avoid flying this aircraft, in it's intended role, for fear of being labelled 'ackstar.'

I've been accused of that, too, but, well, I just shrug it off.

_I_ know that I fly fairly, and in an historically proper manner. (The history is a big thing for me.) I also try to SURVIVE a mission, as I would if my one-and-only-life really WERE on the line.

It seems, sometimes, that some of the pilots in this wonderful game really don't want any CHALLENGE -- they just want to go out and get a quick rush from an easy kill. And then get upset when the tgt shoots back! <G>

I think the current balance between the strengths of fighters and bombers is pretty good and pretty playable right now.

Bombers have more guns, fighters have way more maneuverability. As it should be.

Using the 25h in it's intended (and historically correct) role of ground and sea assault and target capture (yes, and even troop escort) I find to be perfectly acceptable; and I have no intention of letting someone's hurt cries of 'Ackstar!' deter me.

<flame-resistant Nomex suit now zipped-up> :>

Just for the record, I _do_not_ condone true ackstarring -- the practise of circling one of your own fields with Otto blazing away. This is historically inaccurate, and more than a bit dweebish. :>

Best, all. Keep that 75mm loaded and those two props spinnin'!

Ragtime out.

Robert 'Ragtime' Alexander

-rgtm-

bfield posted 12-10-98 06:41 PM ET (US)         

I like to fly "Air attack" offline in the B25H and watch the drones blow up with 1-ping 75mm hits! Seriously, it does help one get a feel for the 75mm ballistics.

Thog posted 12-10-98 06:53 PM ET (US)            

Absotively. Lotsa fun done right. The Haze was practicing different tactics one night, and low-level was one. I was leading the raid but flew a B25H. In part it made a good command plane, since I could type for a second or two and not die. Mostly it was a terrific sniper. I could pop ack at long range, then come in and make many things flat.

I once did a study of the Battle of the Bismark Sea, in which low-level B25's and other aircraft were used to take out a Japanese convoy full of infantry. I've since lost and long forgotten most of my data (thog's memory is iffy in general), but I remember that we destroyed every transport in the convoy and most of the DD's with these bastds. I wish WB modeled skip-bombing and convoys. Maybe 3.0? <g>

As to ackstarring, yeah, that's twitdom in a box. A low-level raid with guns and gunners blazing doesn't bother me. Historically, I've seen the footage. Regardless, it makes sense even if I hadn't. Taking off in a B25 to fly around your field blazing away is silly. I also got pretty bent when I was on a 2-1 fight in a FW, vs. 2 other FW's, and holding my own. A B25h came blazing in and shot me down. THAT I don't buy, since I have a hard time imagining it happening very often. I'd admit if pressed that some crazy basatrd of a bomber pilot might do it, but I don't have to like it.... <g>

Thog, 100th FBG, The Haze

Hammer posted 12-10-98 07:24 PM ET (US)            

The B25H is by far the most fun air craft to fly in the Warbirds theater. I have used her for every thing from "very" low level bombing runs to high altitude buff busting.... Talk about breaking up a formation.....

Steve "Hamer-" Sciuga

X.O. Pale Riders Squadron

Udie posted 12-10-98 07:26 PM ET (US)            

About 2 months ago the 900th went on an awesome b25H low level run. It was the Med terrain and we had just moved to green. We rolled from f1 to hit the gold city. I was leading a formation of 10+ b25's in a nice vic formation at 100ft

The wonderful thing about that 75mm is it's range. As soon as we had visual contact on the city (about 4 miles away?) we went to 100% power, climbed to 2k and opened up with our 75mm's. It looked and sounded realy cool, all those explosions hehe. We had killed all but 3 of the buildings by the time we got to rocket range. Our plan was to go capture F10 after killing the gold city, so only 3 of us dropped bombs on the city. Those bombs killed the radar and remaining buildings. The rest of us straifed the acks with our .50's . All of this was done in 1 pass!

After we closed the city we kept on a NW course until we hit water, then we turned north to f10. Well, on our way, the reds beat us to it and captured f10. So when we got to f10 there were about 3 or 4 planes (2 rolling and 2 just up). We clobbered that field good, I got 4 kills (2 of them vulches) and we captured it. I think only about 4 of us died the whole flight too

I LOVE THE B25H!!!!

Udie

Tora posted 12-10-98 10:26 PM ET (US)            

Nothing like getting 6 of your buddies and doing a NOE run to a field in a B25H. That is what its all about.Pop up , doors open bombs away.Rockets and guns to finish things off.

I just love a good NOE run.

Tora CO *366th/305th BG(H)*