Posted by: No.6 CO Fourth Fighter Group

Message:

[only Zeke tactics discussed in this thread are archived here]

Lastly what is with the Zeke pilots? In this timeframe [early war HA PTO] a Zeke is the B&Z fighter. I know that seems really odd to people but the Zeke has a faster level speed than anything the Allies have in there except the P-40, accelerates faster than all Allied a/c, climbs faster, and has the big punch with 2x20mm too. I should be seeing Zekes hitting from above, making quick passes and getting out and climbing away. Instead I see Zekes turning and turning, basically meat on the table if the Allied pilot under fire isn't alone.

Yes the Zeke can turn but that isn't the strength it needs to use in the early PAC. IMO of course :)

Posted by: hairy

Message: I flew a number of missions for the IJN last night. It seemed like every ping resulted in some part of my Zeke making its way to earth. I lined up plenty of allied planes and pinged them but usually his/her buddy killed me (especially --ra--, he was getting a kill a minute). I made use of the IJN CV's ack as an indicator of allied plane locations during raids on F22. It didn't really help. It definately makes one use the view keys.

It's hard to use the right Zeke tactics when I don't normally fly them.

Will the new Betty be another flying deathtrap? I understand that was their reputation.

Hairy

Posted by: fd-ski S/L Squadron 303 (Polish) RAF

Message:

: Yes the Zeke can turn but that isn't the strength it needs to use in the early PAC. IMO of course :)

Good B&Z plane needs to be able to dive well. Zeke 3 and 5 doesn't have such a bad problem, but 2 compreses as soon as it enters the dive. If you attempt to keep you speed under control, you won't have enough energy to get back on a high perch, or some P40 will hose you down. 1 ping, there goes the wing. As for running, you must be refering to A6M3, cause I was rundown by 40's all night last night...

Now, Ki43 is a wonderful plane, and if it only had 2x20mm instead of MG, that would be a killer plane..... as your buddy -mw--- :) I was the 43 your guys chased for 10 minutes over 30 , even thou I had no ammo...it's a blast to fly....

As for the icons, I like the fact that SA of pilots is impared. Last night I was able to fly numberous hvy missions to 30 from 22 even thou there was 10 allies planes along my way. Little cunning, and planning can go far in HA with those icons. If they get any warning, like a type of plane at d30, hvy 43 is a ded birdie...

Same goes for your SBD raid on 22 last night. I saw the dots and reported them, sice I was hvy I kept going to 30, noone bothered to investigate, and SBD's hit 22 unmolested. Imagine what would happend of I was able to call out "4 unescorted SBD's 15 miles west of 22 at 3k".....can you say a kill rush ?

I like those icons. I really do. And I know some of your guys do as well, they bring out a real pilot in you :)

fd-ski

Posted by: Stiglr Stab JG5

Message:

Still numbers were FAR lower than with the same day of the week and same setup under the SL icon set, which is more indicative of preferences than all the posts from the interested people here, perhaps.

Not in this case. Low numbers in this particular HA have a lot to do with the "Early PTO problem"; that being a terrible combination of extreme Zeke fragility mixed with extraordinarily (and ahistorically) high US/CW pilot quality; this combo translates to Japanese ineffectivness unless they have a big numbers advantage (which is denied because of the usually large number of USN pilots going on seal-clubbing missions). Zeke drivers can afford ZERO mistakes (pun intended), or they are a flaming matchstick. Many of us who like to fly IJN/IJA are simply tired of flying smart, flying carefully and STILL losing a wing or stab to a snapshot from a F4F or P40 (many times one of those rear quarter ones where your own view deceives you due to netlag). Make another assesment when the HA is *competitive* again for both sides.

: Lastly what is with the Zeke pilots? In this timeframe a Zeke is the B&Z fighter.

What you're not seeing here is Zeke compressibility. The Zero is *not* a good B&Z fighter. Once you get into the 275 - 300 MPH area, the control surfaces just *lock up*, tighter than a liquor store on Sunday in Philadelphia; you can't go down and reap that bogie you've been setting up, even if you idle the throttle. Many times your nose simply will NOT drop. Your roll rate stinks on ice; and your target's buddies are closing in for another "single ping" kill. It's not *nearly* as easy as it looks. Of course, when you do opt to get down and dirty and turn, that's when you get nailed by snapshots and HOs, which the US planes can take in abundance. The Zeke cannot.

Posted by: The Buccaneers Homepage

Message:

: Yes the Zeke can turn but that isn't the strength it needs to use in the early PAC. IMO of course :)

Actually, I thought the Japanese pilots behaved rather historically true to form when I was on last night. They relied too heavily on the relative superiorities of their kites while totally ignoring group tactics. I engaged a number of Zekes that were fighting solo, while I was almost always within icon range of a friendly. More then once a Zero followed me into a steep dive, and one even tried dive away from my Warhawk (sheer lunicy, he ultimately discovered)!

Everything you said about the relative strengths of the Zeke is accurate, but the fact is the Japanese pilots concentrated more on "stick and rudder" in training then tactics, particularly multi-ship tactics. Early aerial Japanese military successes in the Pacific were due to factors such as: operational flexibility (tremendous range of Japanese aircraft allowed rapid shifts of these aircraft over vast distances); concentration of force (again because of this superior mobility); Allied ignorance (or perhaps arrogance?) of the superiority of Japanese' aircraft; Allied inexperience on both a tactical and operational level.

The Zeke as a B&Z fighter? More correctly, Japanese pilots used the B&T&B. By that I mean, they would Boom (drop from higher altitude), then quite typically began turning and burning. Dogfighting skill was primary one taught and valued -- it's what the Zeke was built for.

On a personal note, I had a great time last night in the twenty minutes I was able to spare. The Allied pilots were really watching out for each other (thanks again, mv, for clearing that Zeke off my tail; he had me a triffle concerned). My devotion for the P-40 was once again reinforced by the score for my one sorty last night: 2 kills, 2 assists, one take-off and one landing. Thanks for the target practice, IJN/IJA.

Rojo

Posted by: -icemn

Message:

: Yes the Zeke can turn but that isn't the strength it needs to use in the early PAC. IMO of course :)

Zeke is faster than "most" of the US iron...but it won't outrun a .50 caliber round. And it only takes one :( B&Z would be a great alternative if the IJN wasn't outnumbered 2:1 most of the time. But when I have to contend with 3 F4's in my lone zeke coming from 3 different angles and alt's...I'm gonna try my hardest to make sure at least one goes along with me. I rarely get into a stall speed turning fight in the HA, but if I can turn to make the kill and stand a slim chance of getting some seperation before the other 2 get lined up, I'll take it! (Shaw pg 295-302)

Posted by: Flyboy - Outlaws of the HA

Posted on: 11/16/98

Message:

I love the HA! It's great to fly historical matchups like the last HA early PTO. It is a pleasure to fly A/C that actually flew against each other in combat. It just gives me a more "realistic" experence than the MA "everything against everything".

My observations flying a Zero against the P40 (seemed to be the most popular U.S. choice);

Chennault was right- never dogfight a Zero. I never lost a 1 on 1 turnfight against the P40. Only got burned in my Zero in a furball when another Allied plane would get a shot while I was not paying attention to my rear, or they would get a snap shot.

Never attempt to shoot at a P-40 headon- do all you can to dodge his fire or you are dead!

A lot of Allied pilots seemed to foolishly start turning and get slow, falling right into the Zero's advantage.

The smart Allied pilots were unbeatable. They would take a shot, dive, get up to 300kts and crank a turn, leaving the Zero with aleron lock unable to follow. I saw one pair working, one as "bait" and the other to pounce and kill the Zero when it was diving too fast to manuver.

I found the best evasive manuver in the Zero for me was a hard, flat turn with plenty of rudder when an enemy was approaching my six.

I could usually throw off their shot.

Many of my squadmates had a bad kill to death ratio, but mine was about the same as usual (1 to 1). My highlight was taking on a P38 and a P40 alone, killing both, and returning to base un-pinged.

They could have killed me easy if they had had patience and boom and zoomed, but they errored in judgement.

It was cool to live the life of a Zero pilot for an afternoon!

Flyboy

Posted by: s--g--

Posted On: 11/17/98

Message:

A better thing is to not let them know you are there. On Saturday I took up my A6M3 Zero to 7,000 metres [about 23,000ft-front] and headed for F29. I caught three P-40s egressing towards F31. I caught two and damaged the third. A same situation occured later when I suprised two P-38s diving on a furball. A low 6 attack is prefered.

Also I saw many Allied planes try to climb up to me, I waited till they stalled and then got in a quick shot. Always get at least 7,000metres before attacking the Allied planes in a Zeke.

s--g--